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	<title>Comments on: How should mathematics be taught to non-mathematicians?</title>
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	<description>Mathematics related discussions</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-34827</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-34827</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FWIW I&#039;ve always liked this fact and think it would make a great question. Thanks for the suggestion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW I&#8217;ve always liked this fact and think it would make a great question. Thanks for the suggestion.</p>
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		<title>By: Fergal Daly</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-34729</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fergal Daly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2013 09:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-34729</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Look at it this ways. If you only consider the data from the planes that return, you are in danger of concluding that nothing needs to be improved because all the planes returned!

Let&#039;s say there are only 2 parts to a plane, the head and the body. All the planes that come back have bullet holes in the body. None of them have bullet holes in the head.

Does that mean you need to put more armour on the bodies? That was the army&#039;s conclusion. The statistician realised that it actually means that when a plane is shot in the head, it just doesn&#039;t come back. So it&#039;s the head that needs more armour.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look at it this ways. If you only consider the data from the planes that return, you are in danger of concluding that nothing needs to be improved because all the planes returned!</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say there are only 2 parts to a plane, the head and the body. All the planes that come back have bullet holes in the body. None of them have bullet holes in the head.</p>
<p>Does that mean you need to put more armour on the bodies? That was the army&#8217;s conclusion. The statistician realised that it actually means that when a plane is shot in the head, it just doesn&#8217;t come back. So it&#8217;s the head that needs more armour.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: HMC</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-34724</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HMC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2013 09:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I am none the wiser. Sounds like Donald Rumsfeilds famous deliberation on &quot;knowns and unknowns&quot; ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am none the wiser. Sounds like Donald Rumsfeilds famous deliberation on &#8220;knowns and unknowns&#8221; ?</p>
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		<title>By: Tibor Mach</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-34650</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tibor Mach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2013 22:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-34650</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is surely not a question that will take a long time to go through , but gives a neat example of how sometimes the data you get can actually suggests something opposite of what it may seem as obvious at a first glance. The fact that most returned planes had damaged wings suggests actually that wings are not that critical - those planes got back. But the planes with a hull damaged mostly did not make it back - the hits were fatal and so no data could be collected there. If you consider only the data you have and not the data you don&#039;t have you make a mistake - you assume, you have the data from all the hits, which you obviously cannot have. And there are many non-war situation when your information is only partial and not in a form of an i.i.d. random sample. 

If the students don&#039;t believe the teacher, he could illustrate it on a made up situation with fatality probabilities of certain hits and made up data from the returned planes that may seem to suggest something different than what they actually do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is surely not a question that will take a long time to go through , but gives a neat example of how sometimes the data you get can actually suggests something opposite of what it may seem as obvious at a first glance. The fact that most returned planes had damaged wings suggests actually that wings are not that critical &#8211; those planes got back. But the planes with a hull damaged mostly did not make it back &#8211; the hits were fatal and so no data could be collected there. If you consider only the data you have and not the data you don&#8217;t have you make a mistake &#8211; you assume, you have the data from all the hits, which you obviously cannot have. And there are many non-war situation when your information is only partial and not in a form of an i.i.d. random sample. </p>
<p>If the students don&#8217;t believe the teacher, he could illustrate it on a made up situation with fatality probabilities of certain hits and made up data from the returned planes that may seem to suggest something different than what they actually do.</p>
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		<title>By: HMC</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-34590</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HMC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2013 11:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-34590</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What ??????]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What ??????</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tibor Mach</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-34538</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tibor Mach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2013 01:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-34538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A question proposal:

In the second world war, the British Airforce had heavy airplane losses. They needed a way to better protect the fighter airplanes (by armour plating). They could not cover the wole airplane in armour (as it would be too heavy to maneuver to be used as a fighter plane), but instead the aim was to cover the most critical parts. They collected data from damaged planes that returned and it turned out most hits were on the wings of the airplanes.

Does that suggest the best way to protect the planes is to put armour plating on the wings?

It doesn&#039;t, of course, the important part of the data is that which is missing - the planes that did not make it back. And those were the planes hit in the fuel canisters at the middle part of the plane. The army actually went to a statistician and expected him to say the wings need more plating. He gave them the right answer though and it helped considerably.

Also perhaps a good asumption is that the enemy fighters cannot aim directly on specific parts of the plane (quite realistic in WW2 conditions I think), so they cannot adapt to the fact, that some parts now have more plating.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A question proposal:</p>
<p>In the second world war, the British Airforce had heavy airplane losses. They needed a way to better protect the fighter airplanes (by armour plating). They could not cover the wole airplane in armour (as it would be too heavy to maneuver to be used as a fighter plane), but instead the aim was to cover the most critical parts. They collected data from damaged planes that returned and it turned out most hits were on the wings of the airplanes.</p>
<p>Does that suggest the best way to protect the planes is to put armour plating on the wings?</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t, of course, the important part of the data is that which is missing &#8211; the planes that did not make it back. And those were the planes hit in the fuel canisters at the middle part of the plane. The army actually went to a statistician and expected him to say the wings need more plating. He gave them the right answer though and it helped considerably.</p>
<p>Also perhaps a good asumption is that the enemy fighters cannot aim directly on specific parts of the plane (quite realistic in WW2 conditions I think), so they cannot adapt to the fact, that some parts now have more plating.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Balacs</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31888</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Balacs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2012 09:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know very little mathematics but find this fascinating. However, to whom is Prof Gowers addressing himself. For instance, he uses terms, such as Fermi Estimation, which, not only do I not understand, I have never even heard of. He presents intriguing questions as examples of his approach to teaching mathematics, but then leaves the reader guessing. Would it be too indulgent to provide possible answers. In his article in the Spectator of 3 November 2012, he says that the &quot;best answers&quot; will appear in the next issue&#039;s letters page. But only one answer to a question is given, relating to the sharing of a Mars bar. Yours sincerely, Peter Balacs]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know very little mathematics but find this fascinating. However, to whom is Prof Gowers addressing himself. For instance, he uses terms, such as Fermi Estimation, which, not only do I not understand, I have never even heard of. He presents intriguing questions as examples of his approach to teaching mathematics, but then leaves the reader guessing. Would it be too indulgent to provide possible answers. In his article in the Spectator of 3 November 2012, he says that the &#8220;best answers&#8221; will appear in the next issue&#8217;s letters page. But only one answer to a question is given, relating to the sharing of a Mars bar. Yours sincerely, Peter Balacs</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31828</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.</p>
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		<title>By: H. McCreight</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31814</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[H. McCreight]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31814</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does Michael Gove know its going take 2-3 years ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does Michael Gove know its going take 2-3 years ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Maths A-level could include more &#039;real world&#039; problems to attract pupils - Government Tenders, Government News and Information - Government Online</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31798</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maths A-level could include more &#039;real world&#039; problems to attract pupils - Government Tenders, Government News and Information - Government Online]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31798</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] blog now lists dozens of suggested questions covering areas such as estimation and probability – for example calculating how many molecules [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] blog now lists dozens of suggested questions covering areas such as estimation and probability – for example calculating how many molecules [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31762</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31762</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Zeeshan, this is called Simpson&#039;s paradox]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zeeshan, this is called Simpson&#8217;s paradox</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31625</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 15:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31625</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Because it would be very silly to rush something like this: at this stage it is not clear which questions will work in the classroom, and a lot of work will be needed to provide the support that teachers will need in order to teach in a very different way from what many of them are used to. In addition, designing good methods of assessment is a major challenge. If anything, 2-3 years is a worryingly short time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because it would be very silly to rush something like this: at this stage it is not clear which questions will work in the classroom, and a lot of work will be needed to provide the support that teachers will need in order to teach in a very different way from what many of them are used to. In addition, designing good methods of assessment is a major challenge. If anything, 2-3 years is a worryingly short time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: H. McCreight</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31623</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[H. McCreight]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 15:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31623</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How come it&#039;s going to take MEI 2-3 years to make this course a reality ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How come it&#8217;s going to take MEI 2-3 years to make this course a reality ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Zeeshan Mahmud</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31611</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zeeshan Mahmud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 20:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31611</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Professor Gowers, re: Batting average paradox, do you have a concrete example in mind? I was just curious.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor Gowers, re: Batting average paradox, do you have a concrete example in mind? I was just curious.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeeshan Mahmud</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31610</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zeeshan Mahmud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 20:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The word &quot;Cricket&quot; raised a flag :)

I posted a question on MSE that is sleeping for a while on predicting batsman&#039;s runs. Also another problem that I wrestled with is if the Fall of Wickets of all matches approach any graph.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word &#8220;Cricket&#8221; raised a flag <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I posted a question on MSE that is sleeping for a while on predicting batsman&#8217;s runs. Also another problem that I wrestled with is if the Fall of Wickets of all matches approach any graph.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31579</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 11:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A few points here. First, I don&#039;t think you have to be directly involved in something to find it interesting. For example, I find questions about the right tactics to use in certain sports that I don&#039;t play interesting. Secondly, I fully admit that I have almost no experience teaching pupils from all backgrounds. However, the examples above are intended to be illustrations of a general type of question rather than being questions that I am certain would work well. It will be essential before introducing a course of this kind to test the questions on actual classes and weed out the ones that cannot be taught successfully. I&#039;m glad to say that that is what MEI plans to do. 

But I also think that it is not realistic to expect that &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; question is going to interest everybody, and maybe some people will dislike the entire concept. However, the best can be the enemy of the good here. I think the right criterion is whether a course like this would be better for some people than an attempt to cram into their heads some more conventional mathematics. If, for example, 40% of pupils disliked this course intensely and 70% dislike more conventional mathematics intensely, then this course would be doing well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few points here. First, I don&#8217;t think you have to be directly involved in something to find it interesting. For example, I find questions about the right tactics to use in certain sports that I don&#8217;t play interesting. Secondly, I fully admit that I have almost no experience teaching pupils from all backgrounds. However, the examples above are intended to be illustrations of a general type of question rather than being questions that I am certain would work well. It will be essential before introducing a course of this kind to test the questions on actual classes and weed out the ones that cannot be taught successfully. I&#8217;m glad to say that that is what MEI plans to do. </p>
<p>But I also think that it is not realistic to expect that <em>any</em> question is going to interest everybody, and maybe some people will dislike the entire concept. However, the best can be the enemy of the good here. I think the right criterion is whether a course like this would be better for some people than an attempt to cram into their heads some more conventional mathematics. If, for example, 40% of pupils disliked this course intensely and 70% dislike more conventional mathematics intensely, then this course would be doing well.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31554</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure that the audience for these questions has been properly thought through here. Those who are able at maths or need to do maths to do their chosen pathway will take A Level maths. Therefore you will inevitably have a class of pupils who have gained a grade C at maths, probably through a lot of hard work. These pupils will not be able to access the mathematics behind those questions you put in your post and expecting them to be interested in &#039;keeping your coffee warm&quot; or the cost of washing machines just shows your lack of experience in actually teaching pupils from all backgrounds.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that the audience for these questions has been properly thought through here. Those who are able at maths or need to do maths to do their chosen pathway will take A Level maths. Therefore you will inevitably have a class of pupils who have gained a grade C at maths, probably through a lot of hard work. These pupils will not be able to access the mathematics behind those questions you put in your post and expecting them to be interested in &#8216;keeping your coffee warm&#8221; or the cost of washing machines just shows your lack of experience in actually teaching pupils from all backgrounds.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dr Tasneem shah</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31287</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr Tasneem shah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 05:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[having spent 30 yeras as a scientist (modelling and simulation), I entered in to applied maths teaching. I agreed with idea but before delievering the proper prepared lecture one should talk about general applications of the related topic and it has to be categorized for diffirent disciplne (computer science, electrical engg, mechanical engg etc).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>having spent 30 yeras as a scientist (modelling and simulation), I entered in to applied maths teaching. I agreed with idea but before delievering the proper prepared lecture one should talk about general applications of the related topic and it has to be categorized for diffirent disciplne (computer science, electrical engg, mechanical engg etc).</p>
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		<title>By: John Bibby</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-31100</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Bibby]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 18:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-31100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have you seen the Open University course MDST242 &quot;Statistics in Society&quot;? It takes the philosophy &quot;Start where the student is at - Ask an interesting question - Teach a &#039;Swiss army knife&#039; of multipurpose techniques that students can use to a wide range of  questions - Don&#039;t forget the &#039;meta-questions&#039;, which speak about what the mathematics has left out&quot;

Is this similar to your philosophy Tim?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you seen the Open University course MDST242 &#8220;Statistics in Society&#8221;? It takes the philosophy &#8220;Start where the student is at &#8211; Ask an interesting question &#8211; Teach a &#8216;Swiss army knife&#8217; of multipurpose techniques that students can use to a wide range of  questions &#8211; Don&#8217;t forget the &#8216;meta-questions&#8217;, which speak about what the mathematics has left out&#8221;</p>
<p>Is this similar to your philosophy Tim?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Bryer</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-30993</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Bryer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-30993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I haven&#039;t read all the comments so forgive me if I&#039;m repeating anything. As a Maths teacher I enjoy teaching a number of parts of the Decision Maths course as there is no complicated arithmetic or algebra involved and the problem solving concepts have real life applications.

Bin packing or putting objects of differing sizes into boxes wasting as little space as possible is one of these. Also network problems such as the Konigsberg bridges and can you draw a house shape without taking your pen off the paper? Route problems such as a postman having to go down each street at least once and wanting the shortest total distance or even how does a satnav calculate the shortest/best route from A to B?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read all the comments so forgive me if I&#8217;m repeating anything. As a Maths teacher I enjoy teaching a number of parts of the Decision Maths course as there is no complicated arithmetic or algebra involved and the problem solving concepts have real life applications.</p>
<p>Bin packing or putting objects of differing sizes into boxes wasting as little space as possible is one of these. Also network problems such as the Konigsberg bridges and can you draw a house shape without taking your pen off the paper? Route problems such as a postman having to go down each street at least once and wanting the shortest total distance or even how does a satnav calculate the shortest/best route from A to B?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-30720</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2012 12:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-30720</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know exactly but the order of magnitude is two to three years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know exactly but the order of magnitude is two to three years.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: H. McCreight</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-30716</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[H. McCreight]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2012 12:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-30716</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Any new inputs?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any new inputs?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: H. McCreight</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-30284</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[H. McCreight]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-30284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with the the last entry. i will leave this blog for a week and see if anything new has happened on return. Really what is the timeline for MEI to make this exam/syllabus a reality?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the the last entry. i will leave this blog for a week and see if anything new has happened on return. Really what is the timeline for MEI to make this exam/syllabus a reality?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Laurence Oakes-Ash</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-30212</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laurence Oakes-Ash]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2012 15:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-30212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that 1) students should study maths until 18 and also that 2) more real world examples need to be used to make maths, and mathematical thinking relevant.

However, I would make two further points - 1) Real world questions need to be an integral part of mathematics teaching through all ages and 2) The syllabus can still come first, with the questions defining the learning objectives.  An open ended question and personal study, much like the IB syllabus is also a good thing and as the student poses the question herself, the question will be relevant to her.

The truth is that maths is taught from the Platonic philosophy where mathematical objects &quot;exist&quot; independent of the real world.  I think a discussion of that philosophy is outside the scope of this post, but I do believe that it is the fundamental reason many students are alienated by maths.  In many ways, by simply adopting a historical or humanistic philosophy in the way we teach maths, we can communicate the abstract ideas more easily.

I think it is great that Dan Meyer has been mentioned already, but his Ted speech and blog are worth looking at. 

http://www.ted.com/talk/dan_meyer_math_curriculum_makeover.html

Take this discussion on Online maths:  http://blog.mrmeyer.com/?p=15398.  Getting student involved in the question should be key to every lesson that is taught.  The difficulty is that there is not enough investment going into the design of teaching tools.  With the right teaching, you can deliver any syllabus and we should use technology to better standardise and monitor our teaching of maths.

The other travesty, that makes much of the post-16 education discussion problematic, is the huge gap in achievement in the 11-16 age range, discussed at length in the Vorderman report.  Without basic numeracy, achieving rigourous learning outcomes from the types of questions you discuss is near impossible. 

The other thing mentioned in this discussion is the Computer Based Maths movement.  I agree with the objectives of making maths less about computing and more about doing.  However, I again think this hinges on the learning up to the age of say 13-14.  By this stage, a student 1) needs to understand how computation works, and 2) needs to understand how to algebraically express basic ideas.  At this point more computer tools could be introduced alongside algebra to solve real-world problems or answer real world questions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that 1) students should study maths until 18 and also that 2) more real world examples need to be used to make maths, and mathematical thinking relevant.</p>
<p>However, I would make two further points &#8211; 1) Real world questions need to be an integral part of mathematics teaching through all ages and 2) The syllabus can still come first, with the questions defining the learning objectives.  An open ended question and personal study, much like the IB syllabus is also a good thing and as the student poses the question herself, the question will be relevant to her.</p>
<p>The truth is that maths is taught from the Platonic philosophy where mathematical objects &#8220;exist&#8221; independent of the real world.  I think a discussion of that philosophy is outside the scope of this post, but I do believe that it is the fundamental reason many students are alienated by maths.  In many ways, by simply adopting a historical or humanistic philosophy in the way we teach maths, we can communicate the abstract ideas more easily.</p>
<p>I think it is great that Dan Meyer has been mentioned already, but his Ted speech and blog are worth looking at. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.ted.com/talk/dan_meyer_math_curriculum_makeover.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ted.com/talk/dan_meyer_math_curriculum_makeover.html</a></p>
<p>Take this discussion on Online maths:  <a href="http://blog.mrmeyer.com/?p=15398" rel="nofollow">http://blog.mrmeyer.com/?p=15398</a>.  Getting student involved in the question should be key to every lesson that is taught.  The difficulty is that there is not enough investment going into the design of teaching tools.  With the right teaching, you can deliver any syllabus and we should use technology to better standardise and monitor our teaching of maths.</p>
<p>The other travesty, that makes much of the post-16 education discussion problematic, is the huge gap in achievement in the 11-16 age range, discussed at length in the Vorderman report.  Without basic numeracy, achieving rigourous learning outcomes from the types of questions you discuss is near impossible. </p>
<p>The other thing mentioned in this discussion is the Computer Based Maths movement.  I agree with the objectives of making maths less about computing and more about doing.  However, I again think this hinges on the learning up to the age of say 13-14.  By this stage, a student 1) needs to understand how computation works, and 2) needs to understand how to algebraically express basic ideas.  At this point more computer tools could be introduced alongside algebra to solve real-world problems or answer real world questions.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ideas de Tim Gowers sobre la educación secundaria &#171; Matemático en el instituto</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-should-mathematics-be-taught-to-non-mathematicians/#comment-30144</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ideas de Tim Gowers sobre la educación secundaria &#171; Matemático en el instituto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2012 21:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4305#comment-30144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] esta extensa entrada hay una exposición detallada del tema incluyendo una lista de 64 problemas que se podrían [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] esta extensa entrada hay una exposición detallada del tema incluyendo una lista de 64 problemas que se podrían [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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