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	<title>Comments on: Elsevier&#8217;s recent update to its letter to the mathematical community</title>
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	<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/</link>
	<description>Mathematics related discussions</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: pablocecil</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-20702</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pablocecil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-20702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bundling is coming under pressure in other parts of the media. Here is an interesting piece from The Atlantic.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/the-end-of-tv-and-the-death-of-the-cable-bundle/259753/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bundling is coming under pressure in other parts of the media. Here is an interesting piece from The Atlantic.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/the-end-of-tv-and-the-death-of-the-cable-bundle/259753/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/the-end-of-tv-and-the-death-of-the-cable-bundle/259753/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Felix</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-19104</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Felix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2012 20:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-19104</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The competition argument is completely bogus - there&#039;s no obligation whatsoever to keep contracts or prices secret, from customers, or indeed from competitors. The publishers _choose_ opacity to extract the maximum possible out of every subscriber, while making them believe they get favourable treatment.

The major library you mention, for instance, seems to have struck a significantly more expensive deal than Harvard&#039;s, who pay approx. £2.3m annually for all five major bundlers combined, if I interpret their press release right.

And, being the most well-endowed university in the world, even for them, this is too much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The competition argument is completely bogus &#8211; there&#8217;s no obligation whatsoever to keep contracts or prices secret, from customers, or indeed from competitors. The publishers _choose_ opacity to extract the maximum possible out of every subscriber, while making them believe they get favourable treatment.</p>
<p>The major library you mention, for instance, seems to have struck a significantly more expensive deal than Harvard&#8217;s, who pay approx. £2.3m annually for all five major bundlers combined, if I interpret their press release right.</p>
<p>And, being the most well-endowed university in the world, even for them, this is too much.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Horizon 2020 to promote open access &#171; Gowers&#039;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17411</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Horizon 2020 to promote open access &#171; Gowers&#039;s Weblog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 07:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] you read an earlier post of mine about Elsevier&#8217;s updated letter to the mathematical community then you may remember that [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you read an earlier post of mine about Elsevier&#8217;s updated letter to the mathematical community then you may remember that [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alex Bartel</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17326</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex Bartel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 08:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17326</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just imagine how much money academic institutions would have available to support arXiv and similar solutions if they didn&#039;t hand over huge sums to Elsevier and Springer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just imagine how much money academic institutions would have available to support arXiv and similar solutions if they didn&#8217;t hand over huge sums to Elsevier and Springer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Steinberg</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17321</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Benjamin Steinberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 01:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps today&#039;s ArXiv debacle outlined in

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/96809/changes-in-arxiv-management

suggests that it may be premature to drop official journals and use a system that is underfunded and partially run by bots? This would seem to indicate that one does need some staff and money and centralized structure is needed to deal with issues that arise. Of course these kinds of problems coud also arise with usual journals (less the bots).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps today&#8217;s ArXiv debacle outlined in</p>
<p><a href="http://mathoverflow.net/questions/96809/changes-in-arxiv-management" rel="nofollow">http://mathoverflow.net/questions/96809/changes-in-arxiv-management</a></p>
<p>suggests that it may be premature to drop official journals and use a system that is underfunded and partially run by bots? This would seem to indicate that one does need some staff and money and centralized structure is needed to deal with issues that arise. Of course these kinds of problems coud also arise with usual journals (less the bots).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Latest on Elsevier boycott &#124; hyperbole</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17269</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Latest on Elsevier boycott &#124; hyperbole]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 11:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] However, for the most part these are not as significant as they make them out to be.  See this blog post of Tim Gowers commenting in detail on the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] However, for the most part these are not as significant as they make them out to be.  See this blog post of Tim Gowers commenting in detail on the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: new Elsevier journal! &#171; Xi&#039;an&#039;s Og</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17259</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[new Elsevier journal! &#171; Xi&#039;an&#039;s Og]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 22:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] journal&#8220;. (Elsevier has recently responded to this boycott call by making minor proposals analysed in depth by Tim Gowers.) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] journal&#8220;. (Elsevier has recently responded to this boycott call by making minor proposals analysed in depth by Tim Gowers.) [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The UK Pledges to Make All Publicly Funded Research Publicly Available With the Help of Wikipedia &#124; Daily Easy News</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17113</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The UK Pledges to Make All Publicly Funded Research Publicly Available With the Help of Wikipedia &#124; Daily Easy News]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 12:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17113</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] community has been in a bit of a stir this year, ever since mathematician Tim Gowers wrote a post on his blog stating his intention sto abandon publishing his findings with any journal run by Elsevier, the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] community has been in a bit of a stir this year, ever since mathematician Tim Gowers wrote a post on his blog stating his intention sto abandon publishing his findings with any journal run by Elsevier, the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Stephen Handley (@stephenhandley)</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17095</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen Handley (@stephenhandley)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 20:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17095</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://tldr.person.sh/on-the-future-of-science]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://tldr.person.sh/on-the-future-of-science" rel="nofollow">http://tldr.person.sh/on-the-future-of-science</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Elsevier: The beginning of the end? &#124; Piece of Mind</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17093</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elsevier: The beginning of the end? &#124; Piece of Mind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 19:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Tim Gowers is here to explain and clarify for the rest of us the subtleties in some of Elsevier&#8217;s proposals for &#8220;reform&#8221;, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tim Gowers is here to explain and clarify for the rest of us the subtleties in some of Elsevier&#8217;s proposals for &#8220;reform&#8221;, [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: May 4, 2012 &#171; MathLib News</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17074</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[May 4, 2012 &#171; MathLib News]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 23:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] its second letter to the mathematics community, which Tim Gowers has rather neatly dissected on his blog. What’s noteworthy about that to us in the Libraries is Prof. Gowers’ thorough understanding of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] its second letter to the mathematics community, which Tim Gowers has rather neatly dissected on his blog. What’s noteworthy about that to us in the Libraries is Prof. Gowers’ thorough understanding of [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17070</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 22:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17070</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One point: retired mathematicians usually retain library privileges, including access to online journals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One point: retired mathematicians usually retain library privileges, including access to online journals.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Richard Scott</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17043</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 03:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Tim,

The law isn&#039;t an ass on contract secrecy - I can&#039;t see any reading of EU competition law that supports David Clark&#039;s line about opacity of contracts.  Lack of transparency aka information asymmetry is Market Failure 101.

Every authority on competition policy and market failure I&#039;ve come across suggests that the potential collusive effects of price disclosure to the market (because other producers can coordinate their prices with yours) are outweighed by the competitive benefits of consumers knowing what other consumers are paying. 

The fact that a company advances different flawed rationales for an anti-competitive practice doesn&#039;t convince me that they are telling the real story.

And thanks for your campaign from the non-academic sphere.  It&#039;s very difficult to implement evidence-based public policy making without access to the scientific evidence, and many government departments don&#039;t have big library budgets.  If I didn&#039;t have access through my studies, I wouldn&#039;t see many of the articles I actually draw on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Tim,</p>
<p>The law isn&#8217;t an ass on contract secrecy &#8211; I can&#8217;t see any reading of EU competition law that supports David Clark&#8217;s line about opacity of contracts.  Lack of transparency aka information asymmetry is Market Failure 101.</p>
<p>Every authority on competition policy and market failure I&#8217;ve come across suggests that the potential collusive effects of price disclosure to the market (because other producers can coordinate their prices with yours) are outweighed by the competitive benefits of consumers knowing what other consumers are paying. </p>
<p>The fact that a company advances different flawed rationales for an anti-competitive practice doesn&#8217;t convince me that they are telling the real story.</p>
<p>And thanks for your campaign from the non-academic sphere.  It&#8217;s very difficult to implement evidence-based public policy making without access to the scientific evidence, and many government departments don&#8217;t have big library budgets.  If I didn&#8217;t have access through my studies, I wouldn&#8217;t see many of the articles I actually draw on.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17029</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 21:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17029</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for that clarification. If I interpret you correctly, there have been proposals for policies that you feel cannot be implemented successfully -- hence the need for lobbying. It would advance the discussion in a very helpful way if you could tell us what they are and what is wrong with them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for that clarification. If I interpret you correctly, there have been proposals for policies that you feel cannot be implemented successfully &#8212; hence the need for lobbying. It would advance the discussion in a very helpful way if you could tell us what they are and what is wrong with them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alicia Wise</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17026</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alicia Wise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 21:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17026</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Tim,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and for the opportunity to comment on your blog.  In it you quote a trusted sourced who seriously misrepresents Elsevier’s lobbying objectives in Europe.  We are lobbying to ensure that whatever policy is adopted can be implemented successfully, not in any way to remove reference to open access from the Horizon 2020 documents.  Elsevier  is committed to providing broad access to information, and we deploy a full range of business models. We look forward to working closely with the Horizon 2020 team, as we already work with a range of funders, to successfully implement their open access policies.

Our growing portfolio of open access options is summarized online at: http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/intro.cws_home/open_access  

Our agreements with funding bodies here: http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/fundingbodyagreements

With kind wishes,

Alicia
Director of Universal Access
Elsevier
@wisealic]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Tim,</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and for the opportunity to comment on your blog.  In it you quote a trusted sourced who seriously misrepresents Elsevier’s lobbying objectives in Europe.  We are lobbying to ensure that whatever policy is adopted can be implemented successfully, not in any way to remove reference to open access from the Horizon 2020 documents.  Elsevier  is committed to providing broad access to information, and we deploy a full range of business models. We look forward to working closely with the Horizon 2020 team, as we already work with a range of funders, to successfully implement their open access policies.</p>
<p>Our growing portfolio of open access options is summarized online at: <a href="http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/intro.cws_home/open_access" rel="nofollow">http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/intro.cws_home/open_access</a>  </p>
<p>Our agreements with funding bodies here: <a href="http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/fundingbodyagreements" rel="nofollow">http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/fundingbodyagreements</a></p>
<p>With kind wishes,</p>
<p>Alicia<br />
Director of Universal Access<br />
Elsevier<br />
@wisealic</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wayne Bivens-Tatum</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17022</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Bivens-Tatum]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 18:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17022</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Suppose you are successful and cut all support for Elsevier and they go bankrupt. What becomes of the back issues then?&quot;

If that happens, the back issues would be available to all through Portico, which is &quot;a digital preservation service provided by ITHAKA, a not-for-profit organization with a mission to help the academic community use digital technologies to preserve the scholarly record and to advance research and teaching in sustainable ways.&quot; Portico works with dozens of publishers, including Elsevier, to ensure the preservation of digital journals should the publisher go out of business or cancel the journal. 

http://www.portico.org/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Suppose you are successful and cut all support for Elsevier and they go bankrupt. What becomes of the back issues then?&#8221;</p>
<p>If that happens, the back issues would be available to all through Portico, which is &#8220;a digital preservation service provided by ITHAKA, a not-for-profit organization with a mission to help the academic community use digital technologies to preserve the scholarly record and to advance research and teaching in sustainable ways.&#8221; Portico works with dozens of publishers, including Elsevier, to ensure the preservation of digital journals should the publisher go out of business or cancel the journal. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.portico.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.portico.org/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bill Fahle</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17018</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Fahle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 15:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17018</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I definitely like the idea of open access; in particular, independent researchers are hurt by these library bundles. However, I have trouble imagining a solution to the back-issues problem you mention. Suppose you are successful and cut all support for Elsevier and they go bankrupt. What becomes of the back issues then? 

Presumably they paid someone to digitize all those back issues, as I doubt they could interest even grad students in volunteering for that work. Maybe the free access model is backward, and they should only charge for back issues. I worry about similar problems for open access journals, in that they have to have some way to keep the lights on. Let&#039;s hope it&#039;s not advertising.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely like the idea of open access; in particular, independent researchers are hurt by these library bundles. However, I have trouble imagining a solution to the back-issues problem you mention. Suppose you are successful and cut all support for Elsevier and they go bankrupt. What becomes of the back issues then? </p>
<p>Presumably they paid someone to digitize all those back issues, as I doubt they could interest even grad students in volunteering for that work. Maybe the free access model is backward, and they should only charge for back issues. I worry about similar problems for open access journals, in that they have to have some way to keep the lights on. Let&#8217;s hope it&#8217;s not advertising.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17012</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 12:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17012</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I should perhaps have hedged my bets and said near-to-medium ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should perhaps have hedged my bets and said near-to-medium &#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: obryant</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17011</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[obryant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 12:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17011</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;So instead, we must press on with the more positive step of developing alternative models, something I shall report on in the near future.&quot;

I&#039;m on the edge of my seat!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So instead, we must press on with the more positive step of developing alternative models, something I shall report on in the near future.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m on the edge of my seat!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Roberts</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17005</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Roberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 05:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17005</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s something interesting. From the list of &#039;Open Archive&#039; journals (http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/open_archives)

Journal of the American College of Cardiology.....After 12 months....1983

that 1983 is when the archive is open back to. Call me stupid, but Elsevier couldn&#039;t have been publishing electronically back then, because _the web didn&#039;t exist then_. Why is this journal available so far back and not others? And from the looks of it, it was or is owned by a society.

Well, let&#039;s have a look at the society&#039;s page for the journal:

http://content.onlinejacc.org/archive/

and we see that the full text, in HTML and pdf formats, is available for all issues from the current one (that&#039;s right) back to 1998 anyway! Why would Elsevier have a moving wall for a journal you can get current issues for free online?

Then here is another one:

Biophysical Journal.....After 12 months.....1960

1960? That&#039;s astounding. It&#039;s owned by the Biophysical Society, who chose Cell Press to publish the journal jsut over three years ago. Let me try to find this journal outside of the Elsevier system...

...why, it&#039;s all on PubMedCentral:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/journals/231/

completely free from 1960 up to December 2011 (four months ago). So why the moving wall, Elsevier? Why trumpet all this &#039;extra free access&#039; when it is already available?

There&#039;s one more, and this is even more surprising:

Journal of the American Society for Mass Spectrometry.....After 12 months.....1990

I go to the society&#039;s page:

http://www.asms.org/Publications/Journals/SpringerJASMS/tabid/413/Default.aspx

and I see that in 1996 the journal started having a one-year moving wall with free content back to the start of the journal in 1990. So far so good. This is consistent with what Elsevier have said. But wait! Elsevier doesn&#039;t publish the journal anymore:

&quot;Publisher
Springer is the publisher of JASMS effective January 1, 2011.&quot; (from the asms link above)

And clearly May 2012 is more than a year since then, so this journal, as far as it is published with Elsevier, is entirely free with no moving wall. And this wasn&#039;t Elsevier&#039;s decision at all. Ironically, Springer has not gone with the one-year moving wall option, with January 2011 papers not freely available. It is then false to say JASMS is free with a moving wall, and entirely outside Elsevier&#039;s control.

So the argument that society-owned journals, or journals that were once owned by societies, cannot be made open before 1995 is completely ridiculous.

In the other direction, included in the list is

Annales de l&#039;Institut Henri Poincaré (C) Analyse Non Linéaire (back to 1995)

but not 

Annales de l&#039;Institut Henri Poincare (B) Probability and Statistics,

which Elsevier stopped publishing in 2008. I wonder why the IHP only moved one journal, and what stops it moving the other one.

One other comment: the Journal of Biomedical Informatics is shown to be open back to 2011, with a one-year moving wall. That didn&#039;t seem right to me, so I checked the journal itself (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/15320464/34), and it is open back to 2001. At some point the journal changed names, but I think the &#039;2011&#039; is a typo. Bit disappointing, really.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s something interesting. From the list of &#8216;Open Archive&#8217; journals (<a href="http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/open_archives" rel="nofollow">http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/open_archives</a>)</p>
<p>Journal of the American College of Cardiology&#8230;..After 12 months&#8230;.1983</p>
<p>that 1983 is when the archive is open back to. Call me stupid, but Elsevier couldn&#8217;t have been publishing electronically back then, because _the web didn&#8217;t exist then_. Why is this journal available so far back and not others? And from the looks of it, it was or is owned by a society.</p>
<p>Well, let&#8217;s have a look at the society&#8217;s page for the journal:</p>
<p><a href="http://content.onlinejacc.org/archive/" rel="nofollow">http://content.onlinejacc.org/archive/</a></p>
<p>and we see that the full text, in HTML and pdf formats, is available for all issues from the current one (that&#8217;s right) back to 1998 anyway! Why would Elsevier have a moving wall for a journal you can get current issues for free online?</p>
<p>Then here is another one:</p>
<p>Biophysical Journal&#8230;..After 12 months&#8230;..1960</p>
<p>1960? That&#8217;s astounding. It&#8217;s owned by the Biophysical Society, who chose Cell Press to publish the journal jsut over three years ago. Let me try to find this journal outside of the Elsevier system&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;why, it&#8217;s all on PubMedCentral:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/journals/231/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/journals/231/</a></p>
<p>completely free from 1960 up to December 2011 (four months ago). So why the moving wall, Elsevier? Why trumpet all this &#8216;extra free access&#8217; when it is already available?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s one more, and this is even more surprising:</p>
<p>Journal of the American Society for Mass Spectrometry&#8230;..After 12 months&#8230;..1990</p>
<p>I go to the society&#8217;s page:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.asms.org/Publications/Journals/SpringerJASMS/tabid/413/Default.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.asms.org/Publications/Journals/SpringerJASMS/tabid/413/Default.aspx</a></p>
<p>and I see that in 1996 the journal started having a one-year moving wall with free content back to the start of the journal in 1990. So far so good. This is consistent with what Elsevier have said. But wait! Elsevier doesn&#8217;t publish the journal anymore:</p>
<p>&#8220;Publisher<br />
Springer is the publisher of JASMS effective January 1, 2011.&#8221; (from the asms link above)</p>
<p>And clearly May 2012 is more than a year since then, so this journal, as far as it is published with Elsevier, is entirely free with no moving wall. And this wasn&#8217;t Elsevier&#8217;s decision at all. Ironically, Springer has not gone with the one-year moving wall option, with January 2011 papers not freely available. It is then false to say JASMS is free with a moving wall, and entirely outside Elsevier&#8217;s control.</p>
<p>So the argument that society-owned journals, or journals that were once owned by societies, cannot be made open before 1995 is completely ridiculous.</p>
<p>In the other direction, included in the list is</p>
<p>Annales de l&#8217;Institut Henri Poincaré (C) Analyse Non Linéaire (back to 1995)</p>
<p>but not </p>
<p>Annales de l&#8217;Institut Henri Poincare (B) Probability and Statistics,</p>
<p>which Elsevier stopped publishing in 2008. I wonder why the IHP only moved one journal, and what stops it moving the other one.</p>
<p>One other comment: the Journal of Biomedical Informatics is shown to be open back to 2011, with a one-year moving wall. That didn&#8217;t seem right to me, so I checked the journal itself (<a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/15320464/34" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/15320464/34</a>), and it is open back to 2001. At some point the journal changed names, but I think the &#8217;2011&#8242; is a typo. Bit disappointing, really.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: vishuguttal</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-17002</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vishuguttal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 03:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-17002</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here is an example of situation in India: http://giridharmadras.blogspot.in/2012/05/open-access.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is an example of situation in India: <a href="http://giridharmadras.blogspot.in/2012/05/open-access.html" rel="nofollow">http://giridharmadras.blogspot.in/2012/05/open-access.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David Roberts</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/#comment-16992</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Roberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 23:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=4152#comment-16992</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Elsevier have expanded their open archives (http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/open_archives), so that journals will be free to access after 4 years back to 1995. Unfortunately this still doesn&#039;t include Topology. The contents of Topology are still very valuable. Is it because Elsevier cannot sell current issues that they won&#039;t open it up? I find this very mean spirited. There are no problems with past owners of the journal, at least back to 1995, so this is no excuse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elsevier have expanded their open archives (<a href="http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/open_archives" rel="nofollow">http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/open_archives</a>), so that journals will be free to access after 4 years back to 1995. Unfortunately this still doesn&#8217;t include Topology. The contents of Topology are still very valuable. Is it because Elsevier cannot sell current issues that they won&#8217;t open it up? I find this very mean spirited. There are no problems with past owners of the journal, at least back to 1995, so this is no excuse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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