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	<title>Comments on: Results and explanation</title>
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	<description>Mathematics related discussions</description>
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		<title>By: telescoper</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-12054</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[telescoper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve now posted the 1981 A-level Mathematics Examination that I took (both papers).

http://telescoper.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/advanced-level-mathematics-examination-vintage-1981/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve now posted the 1981 A-level Mathematics Examination that I took (both papers).</p>
<p><a href="http://telescoper.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/advanced-level-mathematics-examination-vintage-1981/" rel="nofollow">http://telescoper.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/advanced-level-mathematics-examination-vintage-1981/</a></p>
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		<title>By: James Heather</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11980</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Heather]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2011 14:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m pretty sure that if you ask people on here you&#039;ll get photocopies of quite a few old exam papers. I&#039;m pretty sure I&#039;ve got my A-level Maths and Further Maths papers (1993).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure that if you ask people on here you&#8217;ll get photocopies of quite a few old exam papers. I&#8217;m pretty sure I&#8217;ve got my A-level Maths and Further Maths papers (1993).</p>
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		<title>By: Costermonger</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11977</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Costermonger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2011 08:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11977</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In response to Chris above, I should have made clear that it was Vol 2 to which I was referring. The page illustrated is from Vol 1. The other point I should make is that it is not just content but the sparseness and rigour of approach that is notable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to Chris above, I should have made clear that it was Vol 2 to which I was referring. The page illustrated is from Vol 1. The other point I should make is that it is not just content but the sparseness and rigour of approach that is notable.</p>
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		<title>By: Emilio 'Mnemonic' Pierro</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11975</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Emilio 'Mnemonic' Pierro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2011 00:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11975</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Has there been any response from anyone who didn&#039;t take Mathematics beyond A-level (or equivalent)? Bear in mind anyone who has, which goes for most if not all people in this thread, will make up a very specific demographic of the population. The purpose of a National Curriculum is to cater for the whole spectrum, surely?

Another thing to bear in mind is &quot;National Curriculum&quot; itself is a very idealistic concept. My classmates from elsewhere in the country and different types of schools had studied pretty different things to me. We never did any Geometry or Logic or Set Theory at my school (of whom Eric Temple Bell is an alumnus...) and even the Combinatorics we studied was only as a circumstance of probability theory. No graph theory! Shocking!

I definitely think Logic and Set Theory would go a long way if introduced pre-University, not just for those wanting a career in research, but some understanding of formal logic would be a great addition to the Curriculum. Obviously I&#039;m not expecting a proof of somethin by Gödel, but just an understanding of how language and Logic differ.

The sad thing is, many people (my family included) genuinely thought I spent my time at Uni doing long division, which is a great shame.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has there been any response from anyone who didn&#8217;t take Mathematics beyond A-level (or equivalent)? Bear in mind anyone who has, which goes for most if not all people in this thread, will make up a very specific demographic of the population. The purpose of a National Curriculum is to cater for the whole spectrum, surely?</p>
<p>Another thing to bear in mind is &#8220;National Curriculum&#8221; itself is a very idealistic concept. My classmates from elsewhere in the country and different types of schools had studied pretty different things to me. We never did any Geometry or Logic or Set Theory at my school (of whom Eric Temple Bell is an alumnus&#8230;) and even the Combinatorics we studied was only as a circumstance of probability theory. No graph theory! Shocking!</p>
<p>I definitely think Logic and Set Theory would go a long way if introduced pre-University, not just for those wanting a career in research, but some understanding of formal logic would be a great addition to the Curriculum. Obviously I&#8217;m not expecting a proof of somethin by Gödel, but just an understanding of how language and Logic differ.</p>
<p>The sad thing is, many people (my family included) genuinely thought I spent my time at Uni doing long division, which is a great shame.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Bennet</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11974</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Bennet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 22:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11974</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I once (over 10 years ago) did some remedial sessions for an A-level physics student whose only knowledge of quadratic equations was how to solve them my putting the coefficients into a calculator. (A in Maths GCSE).

Since the properties of second-order differential equations are rather fundamental to physics, even in one dimension, I was shocked at how little insight she had into what was going on (which I was taught when I was 14).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once (over 10 years ago) did some remedial sessions for an A-level physics student whose only knowledge of quadratic equations was how to solve them my putting the coefficients into a calculator. (A in Maths GCSE).</p>
<p>Since the properties of second-order differential equations are rather fundamental to physics, even in one dimension, I was shocked at how little insight she had into what was going on (which I was taught when I was 14).</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11972</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11972</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A New Algebra seems easier than A-Level unless I&#039;m missing something; http://www.archive.org/stream/newalgebra01barnuoft#page/300/mode/2up]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A New Algebra seems easier than A-Level unless I&#8217;m missing something; <a href="http://www.archive.org/stream/newalgebra01barnuoft#page/300/mode/2up" rel="nofollow">http://www.archive.org/stream/newalgebra01barnuoft#page/300/mode/2up</a></p>
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		<title>By: Costermonger</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11968</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Costermonger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 08:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11968</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I took A-levels, all the papers were set by examination boards &#039;owned&#039; by universities. In my own case, my papers were Joint Matriculation Board maths papers. I later found out that the questions were mainly set by academics and senior sixth form teachers. In those days, the Government kept its nose out of the examining process and the various bodies valued their standards and reputations. Standards were high. I am not sure when governments began to take an interest, nor when examining boards began to become divorced from universities, but both of these moves were malign as far as standards are concerned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I took A-levels, all the papers were set by examination boards &#8216;owned&#8217; by universities. In my own case, my papers were Joint Matriculation Board maths papers. I later found out that the questions were mainly set by academics and senior sixth form teachers. In those days, the Government kept its nose out of the examining process and the various bodies valued their standards and reputations. Standards were high. I am not sure when governments began to take an interest, nor when examining boards began to become divorced from universities, but both of these moves were malign as far as standards are concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: Costermonger</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11967</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Costermonger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 08:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I graduated in Mathematics more than fifty years ago, being one of the first school pupils to take the new A-levels (replacing Higher School Cert). I still have a copy of Barnard and Child (&#039;A New Algebra&#039;, 1946) that I used for part of my A-level. If anyone wants to see what was expected of school pupils moving to serious mathematical studies they should find a copy of this book. Twenty years later my eldest son also took A-level mathematics. I can tell you it was much much easier than what I had to face. Now my grandsons are contemplating A-level choices and saying &#039;mathematics is too hard&#039; - what a laugh! I tackled all the questions in the other post, and struggled with some - the memory is not what it was - but I am in no doubt the A2 and B2 sections are easier.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I graduated in Mathematics more than fifty years ago, being one of the first school pupils to take the new A-levels (replacing Higher School Cert). I still have a copy of Barnard and Child (&#8216;A New Algebra&#8217;, 1946) that I used for part of my A-level. If anyone wants to see what was expected of school pupils moving to serious mathematical studies they should find a copy of this book. Twenty years later my eldest son also took A-level mathematics. I can tell you it was much much easier than what I had to face. Now my grandsons are contemplating A-level choices and saying &#8216;mathematics is too hard&#8217; &#8211; what a laugh! I tackled all the questions in the other post, and struggled with some &#8211; the memory is not what it was &#8211; but I am in no doubt the A2 and B2 sections are easier.</p>
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		<title>By: Dominic Yeo</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11966</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dominic Yeo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 07:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A remark that might also be made is that a reasonably solid student (ie one who doesn&#039;t get fazed by slightly different manifestations of the same general idea) would probably do reasonably well in the 2010 paper even if his entire study consisted of reading the 2005 paper and a model solution or markscheme. I think that, while mathematics A-level contains far more interesting material than say physics, it is unfortunate that the papers tend to be so formulaic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A remark that might also be made is that a reasonably solid student (ie one who doesn&#8217;t get fazed by slightly different manifestations of the same general idea) would probably do reasonably well in the 2010 paper even if his entire study consisted of reading the 2005 paper and a model solution or markscheme. I think that, while mathematics A-level contains far more interesting material than say physics, it is unfortunate that the papers tend to be so formulaic.</p>
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		<title>By: student</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11964</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[student]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 03:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Students can often do better on an exam than their depth of understanding might reflect. A curriculum is always finite and specified prior to the exam. Students can therefore learn how to answer the range of questions they are expected to know without necessarily having a `deep&#039; understanding. 

That is, there is some distinction between student understanding and the difficulty of question they can answer, when they have been told beforehand what they need to be able to do. E.g. ``Prove: difficult theorem&quot; is a lot easier when they have memorised the proof already, than when a theorem to prove is chosen that has not been seen before.

Basically: testing never consists of a random selection of questions of objective difficulty because students know what they will be asked beforehand. This relates to the point on having seen past exams.

In the book on algorithms and problem solving - How to Solve it, Modern Heuristics (Not the Polya book) - the authors give an example of a high school problem requiring the use of the triangle inequality that they gave to a range of subjects, including math professors etc. They note that the problem is a lot easier when it occurs in the context of triangle inequality problems (e.g. as an exercise at the end of a chapter on the topic) than when presented in a vacuum. Many of the subjects struggled to first identify the correct technique, but if told the problem is simple.

So while it is interesting whether the `vacuum difficulty&#039; of questions has changed, it is also relevant to what extent material requires students to recognise problem types, generalise results etc, i.e. use problem solving techniques. There seems to be more discussion of problem solving as an emphasis these days in education circles, though I don&#039;t claim reliability for that observation.

Having said all that, I do think that a lot of material is `dumbed down&#039; these days. To me it has something to do with us becoming less `harsh&#039; on our students - more afraid to fail them, whether or not that has anything to do with external pressure or instinctive feelings. To use a crass analogy, professors may be like parents who grew up poor themselves but made it to a cushy middle class lifestyle and now moddy-coddle their children, leaving them `soft&#039;. A lack of tough love, say.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Students can often do better on an exam than their depth of understanding might reflect. A curriculum is always finite and specified prior to the exam. Students can therefore learn how to answer the range of questions they are expected to know without necessarily having a `deep&#8217; understanding. </p>
<p>That is, there is some distinction between student understanding and the difficulty of question they can answer, when they have been told beforehand what they need to be able to do. E.g. &#8220;Prove: difficult theorem&#8221; is a lot easier when they have memorised the proof already, than when a theorem to prove is chosen that has not been seen before.</p>
<p>Basically: testing never consists of a random selection of questions of objective difficulty because students know what they will be asked beforehand. This relates to the point on having seen past exams.</p>
<p>In the book on algorithms and problem solving &#8211; How to Solve it, Modern Heuristics (Not the Polya book) &#8211; the authors give an example of a high school problem requiring the use of the triangle inequality that they gave to a range of subjects, including math professors etc. They note that the problem is a lot easier when it occurs in the context of triangle inequality problems (e.g. as an exercise at the end of a chapter on the topic) than when presented in a vacuum. Many of the subjects struggled to first identify the correct technique, but if told the problem is simple.</p>
<p>So while it is interesting whether the `vacuum difficulty&#8217; of questions has changed, it is also relevant to what extent material requires students to recognise problem types, generalise results etc, i.e. use problem solving techniques. There seems to be more discussion of problem solving as an emphasis these days in education circles, though I don&#8217;t claim reliability for that observation.</p>
<p>Having said all that, I do think that a lot of material is `dumbed down&#8217; these days. To me it has something to do with us becoming less `harsh&#8217; on our students &#8211; more afraid to fail them, whether or not that has anything to do with external pressure or instinctive feelings. To use a crass analogy, professors may be like parents who grew up poor themselves but made it to a cushy middle class lifestyle and now moddy-coddle their children, leaving them `soft&#8217;. A lack of tough love, say.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11963</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 15:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11963</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Improvement on the results from previous years could also be due to lower grade passmarks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Improvement on the results from previous years could also be due to lower grade passmarks.</p>
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		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11960</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2011 21:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11960</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I completely agree that it&#039;s not the schools&#039; fault. In my view a large part of the fault lies with those who take the data and reduce them to a single number so that they can produce a total ordering. If they do that, and if there are real consequences of the ordering, then schools are acting rationally if they choose easy exam boards or push their pupils into subjects where it is easier to get good grades. I think what I would advocate is making available a much more complex set of data. (The practicalities I&#039;m not sure about, I&#039;ll admit.) Amongst other things I&#039;d like to see an anonymized list of pupils, the subjects they took, and the grades (and module scores if available) they got in each subject. I&#039;d also like to know what those same pupils got in GCSE. That way, if some newspaper decided to convert the A-level scores into points and rank schools by the average point score, one could point to the data and make more refined observations, such as that people took more traditional subjects in a particular school, or that the improvement since GCSE was greater, or that there were lots of people getting almost full marks in their mathematics modules, etc. etc. 

In fact, I&#039;d like to be a bit fascist about it. I think that as much data as possible about schools should be available, for the benefit of parents of the pupils at those schools and for the purposes of identifying genuinely failing schools, but league tables should be &lt;em&gt;banned&lt;/em&gt;. 

Having said all that, I also think that some exams, such as GCSE maths, are very very easy for some people, such as anybody who ends up reading mathematics at Cambridge (but not just those people by any means). I therefore think that the way to teach people in top sets at schools is not to work towards those exams but just to teach them maths at the pace they can manage. They will then discover that they can do GCSE when it comes round. (I should make clear that, like Tony Gardiner, I don&#039;t advocate acceleration so much as a broadening and deepening. So I&#039;m not suggesting teaching integration to 13-year-olds, even if they can manage it. But making sure they really understand logarithms, or can derive the formula for a quadratic, or can do proofs in Euclidean geometry -- all those would be wonderful.)

Finally, let me try to preempt any criticism by admitting that I have no experience of teaching in schools. Undoubtedly, implementing what I would like to see implemented would not be easy. And probably there are many teachers who are, against all the odds, trying to teach in the way I would like to see. I&#039;m very pleased to hear that you (whoever you are) are in the teaching profession, transmitting some of the ethos of real mathematics to the next generation.

PS I support Arsenal ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree that it&#8217;s not the schools&#8217; fault. In my view a large part of the fault lies with those who take the data and reduce them to a single number so that they can produce a total ordering. If they do that, and if there are real consequences of the ordering, then schools are acting rationally if they choose easy exam boards or push their pupils into subjects where it is easier to get good grades. I think what I would advocate is making available a much more complex set of data. (The practicalities I&#8217;m not sure about, I&#8217;ll admit.) Amongst other things I&#8217;d like to see an anonymized list of pupils, the subjects they took, and the grades (and module scores if available) they got in each subject. I&#8217;d also like to know what those same pupils got in GCSE. That way, if some newspaper decided to convert the A-level scores into points and rank schools by the average point score, one could point to the data and make more refined observations, such as that people took more traditional subjects in a particular school, or that the improvement since GCSE was greater, or that there were lots of people getting almost full marks in their mathematics modules, etc. etc. </p>
<p>In fact, I&#8217;d like to be a bit fascist about it. I think that as much data as possible about schools should be available, for the benefit of parents of the pupils at those schools and for the purposes of identifying genuinely failing schools, but league tables should be <em>banned</em>. </p>
<p>Having said all that, I also think that some exams, such as GCSE maths, are very very easy for some people, such as anybody who ends up reading mathematics at Cambridge (but not just those people by any means). I therefore think that the way to teach people in top sets at schools is not to work towards those exams but just to teach them maths at the pace they can manage. They will then discover that they can do GCSE when it comes round. (I should make clear that, like Tony Gardiner, I don&#8217;t advocate acceleration so much as a broadening and deepening. So I&#8217;m not suggesting teaching integration to 13-year-olds, even if they can manage it. But making sure they really understand logarithms, or can derive the formula for a quadratic, or can do proofs in Euclidean geometry &#8212; all those would be wonderful.)</p>
<p>Finally, let me try to preempt any criticism by admitting that I have no experience of teaching in schools. Undoubtedly, implementing what I would like to see implemented would not be easy. And probably there are many teachers who are, against all the odds, trying to teach in the way I would like to see. I&#8217;m very pleased to hear that you (whoever you are) are in the teaching profession, transmitting some of the ethos of real mathematics to the next generation.</p>
<p>PS I support Arsenal &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. B</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11959</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr. B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2011 17:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[gowers - &quot;Well, a fairly obvious benefit is that the boards make money from examination fees. Since there are competing boards setting equivalent qualifications, and since schools want their results to look good ***(this sometimes seems more important than the education that they actually impart)***, there is plenty of pressure in this direction. Of course, if a paper is made too ridiculously easy too quickly, then the exam board loses credibility, so one would also expect the pressure to result in gradual change.&quot;

maybe i&#039;m the a-level maths teacher that bites on this one, but I can&#039;t let this go. unfortunately this is all schools nowadays, but it is not the fault of schools or teachers that this is the case. 

what you are saying is like saying a football club finds winning matches more important than playing attractive football, for example. essentially all the football club is assessed on is whether it wins football matches or not, yes it may have a lovely half time pie, or may bring through youngsters with excellent passing skills, or have the biggest attendances for example, but at the end of the day the only output that they are assessed upon is how many football matches they win.

the only output schools are essentially assessed upon is exam results. yes other factors come into play, but if exam results are seen as poor then it cannot be considered a good school. exam results provide the headline figures for a school. it is not the school that decides what outputs it is assessed upon, it is the culture that we live in.

so that a school chooses an exam board that they perceive would give them enhanced gcse or a-level results should not be surprising, but it feels hard to critisise schools for wanting to preserve their position in a market the government seems intent upon making more and more competitive.

and i&#039;m only speaking about the state sector here.

by the way:
thanks for the excellent blog (speaking as someone who sat in your lectures after my 2004 further maths A grade ;o) )]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gowers &#8211; &#8220;Well, a fairly obvious benefit is that the boards make money from examination fees. Since there are competing boards setting equivalent qualifications, and since schools want their results to look good ***(this sometimes seems more important than the education that they actually impart)***, there is plenty of pressure in this direction. Of course, if a paper is made too ridiculously easy too quickly, then the exam board loses credibility, so one would also expect the pressure to result in gradual change.&#8221;</p>
<p>maybe i&#8217;m the a-level maths teacher that bites on this one, but I can&#8217;t let this go. unfortunately this is all schools nowadays, but it is not the fault of schools or teachers that this is the case. </p>
<p>what you are saying is like saying a football club finds winning matches more important than playing attractive football, for example. essentially all the football club is assessed on is whether it wins football matches or not, yes it may have a lovely half time pie, or may bring through youngsters with excellent passing skills, or have the biggest attendances for example, but at the end of the day the only output that they are assessed upon is how many football matches they win.</p>
<p>the only output schools are essentially assessed upon is exam results. yes other factors come into play, but if exam results are seen as poor then it cannot be considered a good school. exam results provide the headline figures for a school. it is not the school that decides what outputs it is assessed upon, it is the culture that we live in.</p>
<p>so that a school chooses an exam board that they perceive would give them enhanced gcse or a-level results should not be surprising, but it feels hard to critisise schools for wanting to preserve their position in a market the government seems intent upon making more and more competitive.</p>
<p>and i&#8217;m only speaking about the state sector here.</p>
<p>by the way:<br />
thanks for the excellent blog (speaking as someone who sat in your lectures after my 2004 further maths A grade ;o) )</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Black</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11958</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Danny Black]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2011 14:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I remember doing Further Maths 20 years ago.  The level of toughness for the questions was the same for the year I did it and the year before.  It is just they cut out about half the topics you would be examined on.  I know people who claimed the new exam was &quot;just as hard&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember doing Further Maths 20 years ago.  The level of toughness for the questions was the same for the year I did it and the year before.  It is just they cut out about half the topics you would be examined on.  I know people who claimed the new exam was &#8220;just as hard&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11952</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 10:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11952</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That would be wonderful! Thanks also to others who have already provided me with material.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That would be wonderful! Thanks also to others who have already provided me with material.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Bennet</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11950</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Bennet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 22:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tim

I have just moved, and have found a wealth of London Board A-level material from about 1978 - 1982 (example papers etc). I haven&#039;t got time to scan it, but could drop it in to Trinity about 24 Sept, when I&#039;ll next be in Cambridge - interested? markbennet@btinternet.com.

Mark]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim</p>
<p>I have just moved, and have found a wealth of London Board A-level material from about 1978 &#8211; 1982 (example papers etc). I haven&#8217;t got time to scan it, but could drop it in to Trinity about 24 Sept, when I&#8217;ll next be in Cambridge &#8211; interested? <a href="mailto:markbennet@btinternet.com">markbennet@btinternet.com</a>.</p>
<p>Mark</p>
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		<title>By: An A-level Physics Examination Paper, Vintage 1981 &#171; In the Dark</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11945</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[An A-level Physics Examination Paper, Vintage 1981 &#171; In the Dark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] A-level examination paper to see what people think about it. It might add to the discussion over on another blog I read [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A-level examination paper to see what people think about it. It might add to the discussion over on another blog I read [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Which way do you carry the one</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11944</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Which way do you carry the one]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 09:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apologies I was being a bit glib. I have become rather cynical about how every generation seems to think that the standard of education in the world steadily rose throughout human history right up to the point that they were 18 when it went in a nosedive along with the quality of popular music and people&#039;s manners.

Most metrics of human achievement advance steadily (say, the speed of the UK under-18 400m finalists to pick something completely random), not because of any real innate change in the little fellas but because they are trained, ie. taught better.

There is blatantly grade inflation, because exam boards are ridiculously &quot;marketised&quot; and tempt schools to buy papers by giving out A&#039;s - I know this for a fact because my dad is a headmaster at a private school which switched to Welsh Board for modern languages because its sister school recommended doing it to boosts results (it worked! Yay!).

However, this has nothing to do with the actual difficulty of the exam or more importantly, with the quality of the education. Prices are universally higher than the 70s but some things (like computers) have got cheaper and some things (like houses) have got more expensive. 

Why don&#039;t every year we see reams of articles about how, oh my god, university entrance requirements have gone way up again for the 30th year and now Cambridge demand much more than three As! Why in my day you could get in with two Bs and a C!

Well, because that doesn&#039;t allow the generation currently in power to feel smug and superior.

[ I&#039;m not accusing you of most of the above by the way, just general annoyance with British press, and should probably say a big thanks for your own contribution to my wonderful education : ) ]

[P.S. I think that looking back at papers from a subject you went on get a FM in does skew your perspective a bit - certainly when I was helping someone prepare for STEP I thought, wow these have got easier and in fact it was the very paper I took! Try looking at modern papers from the A Levels you *didn&#039;t* carry on with!]

------

tl;dr - It&#039;s artifically easier to get an A but educationally standard are higher and school is still challenging. Haters gonna hate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies I was being a bit glib. I have become rather cynical about how every generation seems to think that the standard of education in the world steadily rose throughout human history right up to the point that they were 18 when it went in a nosedive along with the quality of popular music and people&#8217;s manners.</p>
<p>Most metrics of human achievement advance steadily (say, the speed of the UK under-18 400m finalists to pick something completely random), not because of any real innate change in the little fellas but because they are trained, ie. taught better.</p>
<p>There is blatantly grade inflation, because exam boards are ridiculously &#8220;marketised&#8221; and tempt schools to buy papers by giving out A&#8217;s &#8211; I know this for a fact because my dad is a headmaster at a private school which switched to Welsh Board for modern languages because its sister school recommended doing it to boosts results (it worked! Yay!).</p>
<p>However, this has nothing to do with the actual difficulty of the exam or more importantly, with the quality of the education. Prices are universally higher than the 70s but some things (like computers) have got cheaper and some things (like houses) have got more expensive. </p>
<p>Why don&#8217;t every year we see reams of articles about how, oh my god, university entrance requirements have gone way up again for the 30th year and now Cambridge demand much more than three As! Why in my day you could get in with two Bs and a C!</p>
<p>Well, because that doesn&#8217;t allow the generation currently in power to feel smug and superior.</p>
<p>[ I'm not accusing you of most of the above by the way, just general annoyance with British press, and should probably say a big thanks for your own contribution to my wonderful education : ) ]</p>
<p>[P.S. I think that looking back at papers from a subject you went on get a FM in does skew your perspective a bit - certainly when I was helping someone prepare for STEP I thought, wow these have got easier and in fact it was the very paper I took! Try looking at modern papers from the A Levels you *didn't* carry on with!]</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>tl;dr &#8211; It&#8217;s artifically easier to get an A but educationally standard are higher and school is still challenging. Haters gonna hate.</p>
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		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11941</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11941</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My exact words were &quot;I certainly think that&quot; which doesn&#039;t quite mean &quot;I am certain that&quot;. The reason I think it is simply that the modern A-level papers I have looked at look much easier than I remember them being. I admit that that reasoning is fallible: I have had much more mathematical experience in the interim, and my memory of what the papers used to be like is rather vague. That is why I plan to get hold of some papers and look into the matter properly. FWIW I think Part III standards have probably held up much better than A-level standards ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My exact words were &#8220;I certainly think that&#8221; which doesn&#8217;t quite mean &#8220;I am certain that&#8221;. The reason I think it is simply that the modern A-level papers I have looked at look much easier than I remember them being. I admit that that reasoning is fallible: I have had much more mathematical experience in the interim, and my memory of what the papers used to be like is rather vague. That is why I plan to get hold of some papers and look into the matter properly. FWIW I think Part III standards have probably held up much better than A-level standards &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Which way do you carry the one</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Which way do you carry the one]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How can you be certain that the papers were harder if you don&#039;t have any old papers?

lots of love,

Idiot who&#039;s 2011 Part III is only worth tupence ha&#039;penny in old money]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can you be certain that the papers were harder if you don&#8217;t have any old papers?</p>
<p>lots of love,</p>
<p>Idiot who&#8217;s 2011 Part III is only worth tupence ha&#8217;penny in old money</p>
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		<title>By: telescoper</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11935</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[telescoper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 15:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11935</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ps. Should have mentioned that these are from 1981.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ps. Should have mentioned that these are from 1981.</p>
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		<title>By: telescoper</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11934</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[telescoper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 15:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11934</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have A-level papers from Oxford &amp; Cambridge in the following subjects: Mathematics, Further Mathematics, Physics &amp; Chemistry. I also have the special papers (Paper 3) for the last two of these. I&#039;d be happy to scan them in and put them up on slideshare if anyone is interested....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have A-level papers from Oxford &amp; Cambridge in the following subjects: Mathematics, Further Mathematics, Physics &amp; Chemistry. I also have the special papers (Paper 3) for the last two of these. I&#8217;d be happy to scan them in and put them up on slideshare if anyone is interested&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11930</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11930</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was careful to say that the orders in which I presented the A parts and the B parts were independent and random.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was careful to say that the orders in which I presented the A parts and the B parts were independent and random.</p>
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		<title>By: John Peacock</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11928</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Peacock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sean: agreed, the comparison with 1914 isn&#039;t quite fair (although still striking to see what the best schoolkids were once considered capable of tackling). But university numbers at the top end haven&#039;t changed so much over recent years. I graduated in physics from Cambridge in 1977, and I believe the numbers taking that course today are within 10-20% of what they were in my day. But colleagues there tell me that 1st-year mathematical methods teaching is now much more remedial: competence that would have been taken for granted in my cohort tends to be lacking today.

Now in the UK as a whole, your argument does apply: a broader range of people are tackling maths, and going to university to study physics - so it is inevitable that the mean technical standard of undergraduates will decline. But I think it&#039;s clear we don&#039;t face just a growing tail with unchanged achievements at the top. 

Growth in numbers may be part of the problem: maths is now considered important for society, as witnessed by recent government statements that children should all study the subject to age 18. If this happens, then there is a danger that the best students will settle for a lower standard, because they will be in the top x% of their class with less and less effort. Possibly what is needed is for further maths A level to become the minimum standard for entry into undergraduate physics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean: agreed, the comparison with 1914 isn&#8217;t quite fair (although still striking to see what the best schoolkids were once considered capable of tackling). But university numbers at the top end haven&#8217;t changed so much over recent years. I graduated in physics from Cambridge in 1977, and I believe the numbers taking that course today are within 10-20% of what they were in my day. But colleagues there tell me that 1st-year mathematical methods teaching is now much more remedial: competence that would have been taken for granted in my cohort tends to be lacking today.</p>
<p>Now in the UK as a whole, your argument does apply: a broader range of people are tackling maths, and going to university to study physics &#8211; so it is inevitable that the mean technical standard of undergraduates will decline. But I think it&#8217;s clear we don&#8217;t face just a growing tail with unchanged achievements at the top. </p>
<p>Growth in numbers may be part of the problem: maths is now considered important for society, as witnessed by recent government statements that children should all study the subject to age 18. If this happens, then there is a danger that the best students will settle for a lower standard, because they will be in the top x% of their class with less and less effort. Possibly what is needed is for further maths A level to become the minimum standard for entry into undergraduate physics.</p>
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		<title>By: Uwe Stroinski</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/results-and-explanation/#comment-11927</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Uwe Stroinski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 06:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=3141#comment-11927</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not giving any information on your goals has some influence on the voting. The two parts are so comparable in difficulty that I thought they were from the same exam maybe given to different groups of students who now complain. Because of how the questions where formulated I had the impression that you have swapped the parts. Since on that educational level the &#039;how &#039; is very important I have slightly favored one of the combinations A1/B2 or A2/B1 (I do not remember which one though).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not giving any information on your goals has some influence on the voting. The two parts are so comparable in difficulty that I thought they were from the same exam maybe given to different groups of students who now complain. Because of how the questions where formulated I had the impression that you have swapped the parts. Since on that educational level the &#8216;how &#8216; is very important I have slightly favored one of the combinations A1/B2 or A2/B1 (I do not remember which one though).</p>
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