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	<title>Comments on: EDP5 &#8212; another very brief summary</title>
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	<description>Mathematics related discussions</description>
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		<title>By: EDP and some first steps in number theory &#171; Random Thoughts</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-10638</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EDP and some first steps in number theory &#171; Random Thoughts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Feb 2011 15:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-10638</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] My interest was sparked by Tim Gower&#8217;s Polymath project and two comments of Terence Tao (1, 2) on the special case of completely multiplicative functions. Let me state this version of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] My interest was sparked by Tim Gower&#8217;s Polymath project and two comments of Terence Tao (1, 2) on the special case of completely multiplicative functions. Let me state this version of [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Uwe Stroinski</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Uwe Stroinski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I started I tried to maintain the 246 bound. As the proof got longer and longer I got more humble and set the bound to 1000.

Of course, with enough patience this can be fixed by adding more cases or, as Kristal did when he fixed my last post, by considering longer partial sums. I tried to get away with partial sums of length 3 to keep checking managable since the proof was essentially generated by computer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I started I tried to maintain the 246 bound. As the proof got longer and longer I got more humble and set the bound to 1000.</p>
<p>Of course, with enough patience this can be fixed by adding more cases or, as Kristal did when he fixed my last post, by considering longer partial sums. I tried to get away with partial sums of length 3 to keep checking managable since the proof was essentially generated by computer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kristal Cantwell</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kristal Cantwell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have managed to fix the proof I mentioned earlier.  So that it does not go beyond the bounds that prove 246.

Let me recap the proof up to this point:

&quot;I assume f(2)=-1, f(3)=-1 and f(5)=-1. Then

f[242,245]=-3+f(61) implies f(61)=1.

For the sake of contradiction I assume furthermore f(7) = 1. Then f[1,10]=2 and 

thus f(11)=-1.

We have:

f[18,21]=-3+f(19) implies f(19)=1,

f[168,171]=3+f(17) implies f(17)=-1,

f[22,25]=3+f(23) implies f(23)=-1,

f[60,63]=3-f(31) implies f(31)=1,

f[60,65]=3-f(13) implies f(13)=1,

f[114,117]=3+f(29) implies f(29)=-1,

f[184,187]=3-f(37) implies f(37)=1,&quot;

from this we can get f(85,91) = 5 + f(89) -f(43) which implies that 
f(43)=1

however further on there was this: f[868,871]=3-f(79) implies f(79)=1. 

So there remains things to do to reach 246 as the maximal length.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have managed to fix the proof I mentioned earlier.  So that it does not go beyond the bounds that prove 246.</p>
<p>Let me recap the proof up to this point:</p>
<p>&#8220;I assume f(2)=-1, f(3)=-1 and f(5)=-1. Then</p>
<p>f[242,245]=-3+f(61) implies f(61)=1.</p>
<p>For the sake of contradiction I assume furthermore f(7) = 1. Then f[1,10]=2 and </p>
<p>thus f(11)=-1.</p>
<p>We have:</p>
<p>f[18,21]=-3+f(19) implies f(19)=1,</p>
<p>f[168,171]=3+f(17) implies f(17)=-1,</p>
<p>f[22,25]=3+f(23) implies f(23)=-1,</p>
<p>f[60,63]=3-f(31) implies f(31)=1,</p>
<p>f[60,65]=3-f(13) implies f(13)=1,</p>
<p>f[114,117]=3+f(29) implies f(29)=-1,</p>
<p>f[184,187]=3-f(37) implies f(37)=1,&#8221;</p>
<p>from this we can get f(85,91) = 5 + f(89) -f(43) which implies that<br />
f(43)=1</p>
<p>however further on there was this: f[868,871]=3-f(79) implies f(79)=1. </p>
<p>So there remains things to do to reach 246 as the maximal length.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5901</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5901</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Uwe is just trying to show that there is no infinite sequence of discrepancy 2. However, I am interested in the distinction between the maximum length you can get and the maximum length you can get before there is a fairly easy proof (with no backtracking) that you are doomed. To that end, I&#039;d be interested in the most economical proof that there is no infinite multiplicative sequence of discrepancy 2, even if it doesn&#039;t prove that there is no such sequence of length 247. I even think this is somehow a more fundamental question, which is not to say that they aren&#039;t both interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Uwe is just trying to show that there is no infinite sequence of discrepancy 2. However, I am interested in the distinction between the maximum length you can get and the maximum length you can get before there is a fairly easy proof (with no backtracking) that you are doomed. To that end, I&#8217;d be interested in the most economical proof that there is no infinite multiplicative sequence of discrepancy 2, even if it doesn&#8217;t prove that there is no such sequence of length 247. I even think this is somehow a more fundamental question, which is not to say that they aren&#8217;t both interesting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kristal Cantwell</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5900</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kristal Cantwell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This step f[558,561]=-3+f(43) implies f(43)=1 goes beyond the range that proves no sequence of discrepancy 2 has length more than 246 So we have no sequence of discrepancy 2 has length more than 560.  We know the length is at most 246 from computer proofs. I think this can be fixed we can have a human proof of this as well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This step f[558,561]=-3+f(43) implies f(43)=1 goes beyond the range that proves no sequence of discrepancy 2 has length more than 246 So we have no sequence of discrepancy 2 has length more than 560.  We know the length is at most 246 from computer proofs. I think this can be fixed we can have a human proof of this as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Uwe Stroinski</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5882</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Uwe Stroinski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5882</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a proof that there is no completely multiplicative sequence with discrepancy 2, f(2)=f(3)=f(5)=-1 and f(7)=-1 (which is the last case).

I assume f(2)=-1, f(3)=-1 and f(5)=-1. Then

f[242,245]=-3+f(61) implies f(61)=1.

For the sake of contradiction I assume furthermore f(7) = -1.

We have:

f[14,17]=3+f(17) implies f(17)=-1 and

f[34,37]=3+f(37) implies f(37)=-1.

Sub-case 1: f(11)=-1.

0: 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 -1 -1 1 1&#124;0

10: -1 -1 f(13) 1 1 1 -1 -1 f(19) -1&#124;-2+f(13)+f(19)

Then f[1,12]=-2 and thus f(13)=1. Now

f[54,57]=3-f(19) implies f(19)=1.

10: -1 -1 1 1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1&#124;0

20: 1 1 f(23) 1 1 -1 -1 -1 f(29) -1&#124;f(23)+f(29)

f[1,22]=2 implies f(23)=-1 and then f[1,25]=3 is a contradiction. Thus f(11)=1.

Sub-case 2: f(11)=1.

0: 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 -1 -1 1 1&#124;0

10: 1 -1 f(13) 1 1 1 -1 -1 f(19) -1&#124;f(13)+f(19)

We have f(9)=f(10)=f(11)=f(14)=f(15)=f(16)=1 and f(12)=-1. This implies f(13)=-1.

f[34,39]=3-f(19) implies f(19)=1,

f[30,33]=-3+f(31) implies f(31)=1,

f[28,33]=-3+f(29) implies f(29)=1 and

f[242,247]=-3+f(41) implies f(41)=1.

10: 1 -1 -1 1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1&#124;0

20: 1 -1 f(23) 1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1&#124;1+f(23)

30: 1 -1 -1 1 1 1 -1 -1 1 1&#124;3+f(23)

40: 1 -1 f(43) 1 -1 -f(23) f(47) -1 1 -1&#124;2+f(43)+f(47)

Since f[1,41]=4 +f(23) we get a contradiction and thus f(11) is not 1.

Therefore we get a contradiction in the main case (the case f(7)=-1).

Since f(7)=1 is treated in an earlier post, that completes the proof (by hand) that there is no completely multiplicative sequence with discrepancy 2.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a proof that there is no completely multiplicative sequence with discrepancy 2, f(2)=f(3)=f(5)=-1 and f(7)=-1 (which is the last case).</p>
<p>I assume f(2)=-1, f(3)=-1 and f(5)=-1. Then</p>
<p>f[242,245]=-3+f(61) implies f(61)=1.</p>
<p>For the sake of contradiction I assume furthermore f(7) = -1.</p>
<p>We have:</p>
<p>f[14,17]=3+f(17) implies f(17)=-1 and</p>
<p>f[34,37]=3+f(37) implies f(37)=-1.</p>
<p>Sub-case 1: f(11)=-1.</p>
<p>0: 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 -1 -1 1 1|0</p>
<p>10: -1 -1 f(13) 1 1 1 -1 -1 f(19) -1|-2+f(13)+f(19)</p>
<p>Then f[1,12]=-2 and thus f(13)=1. Now</p>
<p>f[54,57]=3-f(19) implies f(19)=1.</p>
<p>10: -1 -1 1 1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1|0</p>
<p>20: 1 1 f(23) 1 1 -1 -1 -1 f(29) -1|f(23)+f(29)</p>
<p>f[1,22]=2 implies f(23)=-1 and then f[1,25]=3 is a contradiction. Thus f(11)=1.</p>
<p>Sub-case 2: f(11)=1.</p>
<p>0: 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 -1 -1 1 1|0</p>
<p>10: 1 -1 f(13) 1 1 1 -1 -1 f(19) -1|f(13)+f(19)</p>
<p>We have f(9)=f(10)=f(11)=f(14)=f(15)=f(16)=1 and f(12)=-1. This implies f(13)=-1.</p>
<p>f[34,39]=3-f(19) implies f(19)=1,</p>
<p>f[30,33]=-3+f(31) implies f(31)=1,</p>
<p>f[28,33]=-3+f(29) implies f(29)=1 and</p>
<p>f[242,247]=-3+f(41) implies f(41)=1.</p>
<p>10: 1 -1 -1 1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1|0</p>
<p>20: 1 -1 f(23) 1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1|1+f(23)</p>
<p>30: 1 -1 -1 1 1 1 -1 -1 1 1|3+f(23)</p>
<p>40: 1 -1 f(43) 1 -1 -f(23) f(47) -1 1 -1|2+f(43)+f(47)</p>
<p>Since f[1,41]=4 +f(23) we get a contradiction and thus f(11) is not 1.</p>
<p>Therefore we get a contradiction in the main case (the case f(7)=-1).</p>
<p>Since f(7)=1 is treated in an earlier post, that completes the proof (by hand) that there is no completely multiplicative sequence with discrepancy 2.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Klas Markström</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5878</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Klas Markström]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[During the night one more solution of length 1120 was found.  I have added it to the list, the name of the file is sol.6119-1-1-1-0-1-0-1-0]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During the night one more solution of length 1120 was found.  I have added it to the list, the name of the file is sol.6119-1-1-1-0-1-0-1-0</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alec Edgington</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5877</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alec Edgington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5877</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hmm, actually it appears that the best growth arises as $latex \alpha \rightarrow 1$, though there is some fairly chaotic variation at other values.

Maximum absolute value attained by partial sums up to 10000 terms for various $latex \alpha$:
&lt;pre&gt;
0.1     731
0.2    1111
0.3     844
0.4     639
0.5    1009
0.6    1271
0.7    1324
0.8     371
0.9     480
0.99    181
0.999   138
0.9999  140
&lt;/pre&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, actually it appears that the best growth arises as <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha+%5Crightarrow+1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha &#92;rightarrow 1' title='&#92;alpha &#92;rightarrow 1' class='latex' />, though there is some fairly chaotic variation at other values.</p>
<p>Maximum absolute value attained by partial sums up to 10000 terms for various <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha' title='&#92;alpha' class='latex' />:</p>
<pre>
0.1     731
0.2    1111
0.3     844
0.4     639
0.5    1009
0.6    1271
0.7    1324
0.8     371
0.9     480
0.99    181
0.999   138
0.9999  140
</pre>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5876</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wish I understood what was going on well enough to be able to guess what the best $latex \alpha$ should be. But the next best thing would be to see what it is experimentally and then try to retrodict (if that&#039;s the right word) that value.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish I understood what was going on well enough to be able to guess what the best <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha' title='&#92;alpha' class='latex' /> should be. But the next best thing would be to see what it is experimentally and then try to retrodict (if that&#8217;s the right word) that value.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alec Edgington</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5875</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alec Edgington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Right, an initial play with this suggests that something like (ii) may be the case:

http://www.obtext.com/erdos/some_alpha.png

These are plots up to 5000 for 20 values of $latex \alpha$ between 0.5 and 1. I&#039;ll see if I can home in on the &#039;good&#039; values...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, an initial play with this suggests that something like (ii) may be the case:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.obtext.com/erdos/some_alpha.png" rel="nofollow">http://www.obtext.com/erdos/some_alpha.png</a></p>
<p>These are plots up to 5000 for 20 values of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha' title='&#92;alpha' class='latex' /> between 0.5 and 1. I&#8217;ll see if I can home in on the &#8216;good&#8217; values&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Uwe Stroinski</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5874</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Uwe Stroinski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5874</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a proof that there is no completely multiplicative sequence with discrepancy 2, f(2)=f(3)=f(5)=-1 and f(7)=1.

I assume f(2)=-1, f(3)=-1 and f(5)=-1. Then

f[242,245]=-3+f(61) implies f(61)=1.

For the sake of contradiction I assume furthermore f(7) = 1. Then f[1,10]=2 and thus f(11)=-1.

We have:

f[18,21]=-3+f(19) implies f(19)=1,

f[168,171]=3+f(17) implies f(17)=-1,

f[22,25]=3+f(23)  implies f(23)=-1,

f[60,63]=3-f(31) implies f(31)=1,

f[60,65]=3-f(13) implies f(13)=1,

f[114,117]=3+f(29) implies f(29)=-1,

f[184,187]=3-f(37) implies f(37)=1,

f[558,561]=-3+f(43) implies f(43)=1,

f[40,43]=3+f(41) implies f(41)=-1,

f[50,55]=3+f(53) implies f(53)=-1,

f[58,61]=3+f(59) implies f(59)=-1,

f[92,95]=-3-f(47) implies f(47)=-1 and

f[132,135]=3-f(67) implies f(67)=1.

0: 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 1 -1 1 1&#124;2

10: -1 -1 1 -1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1&#124;0

20: -1 1 -1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1 -1&#124;-2

30: 1 -1 1 1 -1 1 1 -1 -1 1&#124;0

40: -1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1 -1 1 -1&#124;-2

50: 1 1 -1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1&#124;0

60: 1 -1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 1&#124;2

70: f(71) -1 f(73) -1 -1 1 -1 1 f(79) -1&#124;-1+f(71)+f(73)+f(79)

Now f[1,70]=2 and thus f(71)=-1. We have

f[72,75]=-3+f(73) implies f(73)=1,

f[88,91]=3+f(89) implies f(89)=-1 and

f[868,871]=3-f(79) implies f(79)=1.

70: -1 -1 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 1 -1&#124;0

80: 1 1 f(83) -1 1 -1 1 1 -1 1&#124;3+f(83)

90: 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 f(97) -1 -1 1&#124;2+f(83)+f(97)

Now f[1,91]=4+f(83) is a contradiction and thus f(7)=-1.

It remains to show (by hand) that there is no completely multiplicative sequence with discrepancy 2 and f(2)=f(3)=f(5)=f(7)=-1. If my computer is right, this is much easier.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a proof that there is no completely multiplicative sequence with discrepancy 2, f(2)=f(3)=f(5)=-1 and f(7)=1.</p>
<p>I assume f(2)=-1, f(3)=-1 and f(5)=-1. Then</p>
<p>f[242,245]=-3+f(61) implies f(61)=1.</p>
<p>For the sake of contradiction I assume furthermore f(7) = 1. Then f[1,10]=2 and thus f(11)=-1.</p>
<p>We have:</p>
<p>f[18,21]=-3+f(19) implies f(19)=1,</p>
<p>f[168,171]=3+f(17) implies f(17)=-1,</p>
<p>f[22,25]=3+f(23)  implies f(23)=-1,</p>
<p>f[60,63]=3-f(31) implies f(31)=1,</p>
<p>f[60,65]=3-f(13) implies f(13)=1,</p>
<p>f[114,117]=3+f(29) implies f(29)=-1,</p>
<p>f[184,187]=3-f(37) implies f(37)=1,</p>
<p>f[558,561]=-3+f(43) implies f(43)=1,</p>
<p>f[40,43]=3+f(41) implies f(41)=-1,</p>
<p>f[50,55]=3+f(53) implies f(53)=-1,</p>
<p>f[58,61]=3+f(59) implies f(59)=-1,</p>
<p>f[92,95]=-3-f(47) implies f(47)=-1 and</p>
<p>f[132,135]=3-f(67) implies f(67)=1.</p>
<p>0: 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 1 -1 1 1|2</p>
<p>10: -1 -1 1 -1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1|0</p>
<p>20: -1 1 -1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1 -1|-2</p>
<p>30: 1 -1 1 1 -1 1 1 -1 -1 1|0</p>
<p>40: -1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1 -1 1 -1|-2</p>
<p>50: 1 1 -1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1|0</p>
<p>60: 1 -1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 1|2</p>
<p>70: f(71) -1 f(73) -1 -1 1 -1 1 f(79) -1|-1+f(71)+f(73)+f(79)</p>
<p>Now f[1,70]=2 and thus f(71)=-1. We have</p>
<p>f[72,75]=-3+f(73) implies f(73)=1,</p>
<p>f[88,91]=3+f(89) implies f(89)=-1 and</p>
<p>f[868,871]=3-f(79) implies f(79)=1.</p>
<p>70: -1 -1 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 1 -1|0</p>
<p>80: 1 1 f(83) -1 1 -1 1 1 -1 1|3+f(83)</p>
<p>90: 1 -1 -1 1 -1 1 f(97) -1 -1 1|2+f(83)+f(97)</p>
<p>Now f[1,91]=4+f(83) is a contradiction and thus f(7)=-1.</p>
<p>It remains to show (by hand) that there is no completely multiplicative sequence with discrepancy 2 and f(2)=f(3)=f(5)=f(7)=-1. If my computer is right, this is much easier.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5873</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5873</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s yet another idea for producing a good sequence (my promise to try not to do this was fairly meaningless). If one wants to introduce a phase shift in order to try to stop any resonance, then a simple way of doing it is to define $latex f(p)$ to be 1 if the partial sum up to $latex \alpha p$ is negative and $latex -1$ otherwise. And of course that too can be made more probabilistic. It would be interesting to know which (if any) of the following three likely possibilities holds.

(i) Whatever $latex \alpha$ you choose, you get big growth, but $latex \alpha$ affects its frequency and amplitude to some extent.

(ii) Most $latex \alpha$ have very little effect, but if you get the right $latex \alpha$ you almost completely kill the growth (with subcases that you make it square-root-like or you make it power-of-log-like).

(iii) There are a few values for $latex \alpha$, notably 1, that are particularly bad, but in general pretty well any $latex \alpha$ is a big help.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s yet another idea for producing a good sequence (my promise to try not to do this was fairly meaningless). If one wants to introduce a phase shift in order to try to stop any resonance, then a simple way of doing it is to define <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=f%28p%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='f(p)' title='f(p)' class='latex' /> to be 1 if the partial sum up to <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha+p&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha p' title='&#92;alpha p' class='latex' /> is negative and <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=-1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='-1' title='-1' class='latex' /> otherwise. And of course that too can be made more probabilistic. It would be interesting to know which (if any) of the following three likely possibilities holds.</p>
<p>(i) Whatever <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha' title='&#92;alpha' class='latex' /> you choose, you get big growth, but <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha' title='&#92;alpha' class='latex' /> affects its frequency and amplitude to some extent.</p>
<p>(ii) Most <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha' title='&#92;alpha' class='latex' /> have very little effect, but if you get the right <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha' title='&#92;alpha' class='latex' /> you almost completely kill the growth (with subcases that you make it square-root-like or you make it power-of-log-like).</p>
<p>(iii) There are a few values for <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha' title='&#92;alpha' class='latex' />, notably 1, that are particularly bad, but in general pretty well any <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha' title='&#92;alpha' class='latex' /> is a big help.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5872</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5872</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The thread on simple algorithms for producing (or accidentally failing to produce) reasonably low-discrepancy multiplicative sequences has got so long now that I&#039;m starting a new comment about what the explanations might be for what we are observing.

It occurs to me now that the apparent linear behaviour may be an illusion, and that the truth may be growth that is very slightly sublinear. My reasoning is as follows. If you define a multiplicative function by defining $latex f(p)$ to be $latex -1$ raised to the power $latex \lfloor\log_2p\rfloor$, then you get some very nice behaviour that points in the direction of linear discrepancy. For instance, if $latex p$ and $latex q$ are primes and it so happens that $latex pq$ is only just smaller than $latex 2^k$, then it is very likely that $latex \lfloor\log_2p\rfloor+\lfloor\log_2p\rfloor=\lfloor\log_2(pq)\rfloor$. So there is a tendency for the $latex pq$s to behave very like the primes, at least in the run-up to a power of 2. 

This kind of argument works for products of more than two primes as well, but the more primes you take, the worse it gets. Now a typical integer near $latex n$ has about $latex \log\log n$ prime factors (despite anything I might have written to the contrary), and if $latex n$ is less than a million, then $latex \log\log n$ looks pretty much like a constant. So I think that the apparent linearity that we see in the examples that blow up may well be a function more like $latex n/\log n$ that we are just not fully seeing yet. Looking back at some of the plots, there are some signs, though far from conclusive ones, that the gradient is levelling off just a little.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thread on simple algorithms for producing (or accidentally failing to produce) reasonably low-discrepancy multiplicative sequences has got so long now that I&#8217;m starting a new comment about what the explanations might be for what we are observing.</p>
<p>It occurs to me now that the apparent linear behaviour may be an illusion, and that the truth may be growth that is very slightly sublinear. My reasoning is as follows. If you define a multiplicative function by defining <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=f%28p%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='f(p)' title='f(p)' class='latex' /> to be <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=-1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='-1' title='-1' class='latex' /> raised to the power <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Clfloor%5Clog_2p%5Crfloor&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;lfloor&#92;log_2p&#92;rfloor' title='&#92;lfloor&#92;log_2p&#92;rfloor' class='latex' />, then you get some very nice behaviour that points in the direction of linear discrepancy. For instance, if <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=p&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='p' title='p' class='latex' /> and <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=q&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='q' title='q' class='latex' /> are primes and it so happens that <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=pq&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='pq' title='pq' class='latex' /> is only just smaller than <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=2%5Ek&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='2^k' title='2^k' class='latex' />, then it is very likely that <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Clfloor%5Clog_2p%5Crfloor%2B%5Clfloor%5Clog_2p%5Crfloor%3D%5Clfloor%5Clog_2%28pq%29%5Crfloor&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;lfloor&#92;log_2p&#92;rfloor+&#92;lfloor&#92;log_2p&#92;rfloor=&#92;lfloor&#92;log_2(pq)&#92;rfloor' title='&#92;lfloor&#92;log_2p&#92;rfloor+&#92;lfloor&#92;log_2p&#92;rfloor=&#92;lfloor&#92;log_2(pq)&#92;rfloor' class='latex' />. So there is a tendency for the <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=pq&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='pq' title='pq' class='latex' />s to behave very like the primes, at least in the run-up to a power of 2. </p>
<p>This kind of argument works for products of more than two primes as well, but the more primes you take, the worse it gets. Now a typical integer near <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n' title='n' class='latex' /> has about <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Clog%5Clog+n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;log&#92;log n' title='&#92;log&#92;log n' class='latex' /> prime factors (despite anything I might have written to the contrary), and if <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n' title='n' class='latex' /> is less than a million, then <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Clog%5Clog+n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;log&#92;log n' title='&#92;log&#92;log n' class='latex' /> looks pretty much like a constant. So I think that the apparent linearity that we see in the examples that blow up may well be a function more like <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n%2F%5Clog+n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n/&#92;log n' title='n/&#92;log n' class='latex' /> that we are just not fully seeing yet. Looking back at some of the plots, there are some signs, though far from conclusive ones, that the gradient is levelling off just a little.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5871</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5871</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a partial explanation for this linear behaviour that keeps popping up, but need to think about it more. The idea is that the heuristic argument that predicts that choosing $latex f(p)$ to have the opposite sign to the partial sum up to $latex p-1$ should work well depends on the assumption that the partial sums look like a random walk. But if they ever &lt;em&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; look like a random walk and start moving at a linear rate, then choosing the $latex f(p)$s will not have enough effect to defeat that linear behaviour. So instead what happens is that you just hopelessly attempt to slow it down, putting in a long sequence of values of the same sign that set you up for trouble a bit later on.

Actually, have you tried the very simple adjustment, designed to avoid this rather extreme behaviour, of setting ... wait, I&#039;ve just looked back and seen that you have. I&#039;m talking about having probabilities of 2/3 and 1/3 instead of 1 and 0. You gave a link to some pictures that you claimed were much more square-root-like. I&#039;d be interested to know whether that really is the case -- that is, if you go a lot further than 10,000, do the deviations get quite a bit bigger?

Also, one could imagine varying your tanh experiment by sticking a factor of 1/2 in front of the tanh (so that the probabilities vary between 1/4 and 3/4 rather than between 0 and 1). I think that might have the effect of stopping the linear behaviour from ever arising, while maintaining the good control. And if it doesn&#039;t, then perhaps some other constant would.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a partial explanation for this linear behaviour that keeps popping up, but need to think about it more. The idea is that the heuristic argument that predicts that choosing <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=f%28p%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='f(p)' title='f(p)' class='latex' /> to have the opposite sign to the partial sum up to <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=p-1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='p-1' title='p-1' class='latex' /> should work well depends on the assumption that the partial sums look like a random walk. But if they ever <em>don&#8217;t</em> look like a random walk and start moving at a linear rate, then choosing the <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=f%28p%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='f(p)' title='f(p)' class='latex' />s will not have enough effect to defeat that linear behaviour. So instead what happens is that you just hopelessly attempt to slow it down, putting in a long sequence of values of the same sign that set you up for trouble a bit later on.</p>
<p>Actually, have you tried the very simple adjustment, designed to avoid this rather extreme behaviour, of setting &#8230; wait, I&#8217;ve just looked back and seen that you have. I&#8217;m talking about having probabilities of 2/3 and 1/3 instead of 1 and 0. You gave a link to some pictures that you claimed were much more square-root-like. I&#8217;d be interested to know whether that really is the case &#8212; that is, if you go a lot further than 10,000, do the deviations get quite a bit bigger?</p>
<p>Also, one could imagine varying your tanh experiment by sticking a factor of 1/2 in front of the tanh (so that the probabilities vary between 1/4 and 3/4 rather than between 0 and 1). I think that might have the effect of stopping the linear behaviour from ever arising, while maintaining the good control. And if it doesn&#8217;t, then perhaps some other constant would.</p>
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		<title>By: Alec Edgington</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5870</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alec Edgington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5870</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sure. Here are ten runs of that method up to 30000, where at every other assignment $latex r$ is chosen randomly from the last $latex 10 \log p$ numbers: 

http://www.obtext.com/erdos/alternate_30000.png

As expected the graphs display a mixture of characteristics. Apart from the green one they do seem to be just about under control.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure. Here are ten runs of that method up to 30000, where at every other assignment <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=r&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='r' title='r' class='latex' /> is chosen randomly from the last <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=10+%5Clog+p&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='10 &#92;log p' title='10 &#92;log p' class='latex' /> numbers: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.obtext.com/erdos/alternate_30000.png" rel="nofollow">http://www.obtext.com/erdos/alternate_30000.png</a></p>
<p>As expected the graphs display a mixture of characteristics. Apart from the green one they do seem to be just about under control.</p>
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		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5869</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5869</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alec, thanks for running that $latex f(p)=-f(r)$ idea. It gives me one more idea (after which I may stop -- but I can&#039;t quite guarantee it). I think I can understand why $latex f(p)=-f(r)$ for a random recent $latex r$ might give fairly random behaviour. The rough reason is this. If the function starts growing in a linear kind of way, then the choices at primes will cease to be random and will try to kill the gradient. So this method should stop linear growth. However, if the behaviour is fairly random, then the choice of $latex f(p)$ is also pretty random. (Yes, there is some dependence, but we have a lot of dependences anyway.) So this method won&#039;t do anything to defeat randomness, so to speak.

Now the other method (making $latex f(p)$ -1 when partial sums are positive and +1 when they&#039;re negative) defeats randomness, but seems to give rise to linear behaviour. So what if we combine the two? That is, what if we just alternate the two methods of choosing $latex f(p)$? The idea is that one method would keep things at worst random and the other would then kill off the randomness. In short, one method would produce the randomness that the other one needs for the heuristic argument that lay behind it to work.

My heuristic arguments here are obviously pretty vague, and I can well imagine that this won&#039;t work at all, but it definitely seems to be worth a try, and I&#039;d have thought you could patch together some bits of existing code pretty quickly.

On another topic, I am very intrigued by your tanh sequences, and especially by the idea that they may be extremely well controlled but in an unstable way. There are all sorts of phenomena that I&#039;d like to understand better. It feels as though there ought to be differential equations that would predict the behaviour well, but my attempts to do that have so far given obviously wrong predictions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alec, thanks for running that <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=f%28p%29%3D-f%28r%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='f(p)=-f(r)' title='f(p)=-f(r)' class='latex' /> idea. It gives me one more idea (after which I may stop &#8212; but I can&#8217;t quite guarantee it). I think I can understand why <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=f%28p%29%3D-f%28r%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='f(p)=-f(r)' title='f(p)=-f(r)' class='latex' /> for a random recent <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=r&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='r' title='r' class='latex' /> might give fairly random behaviour. The rough reason is this. If the function starts growing in a linear kind of way, then the choices at primes will cease to be random and will try to kill the gradient. So this method should stop linear growth. However, if the behaviour is fairly random, then the choice of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=f%28p%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='f(p)' title='f(p)' class='latex' /> is also pretty random. (Yes, there is some dependence, but we have a lot of dependences anyway.) So this method won&#8217;t do anything to defeat randomness, so to speak.</p>
<p>Now the other method (making <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=f%28p%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='f(p)' title='f(p)' class='latex' /> -1 when partial sums are positive and +1 when they&#8217;re negative) defeats randomness, but seems to give rise to linear behaviour. So what if we combine the two? That is, what if we just alternate the two methods of choosing <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=f%28p%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='f(p)' title='f(p)' class='latex' />? The idea is that one method would keep things at worst random and the other would then kill off the randomness. In short, one method would produce the randomness that the other one needs for the heuristic argument that lay behind it to work.</p>
<p>My heuristic arguments here are obviously pretty vague, and I can well imagine that this won&#8217;t work at all, but it definitely seems to be worth a try, and I&#8217;d have thought you could patch together some bits of existing code pretty quickly.</p>
<p>On another topic, I am very intrigued by your tanh sequences, and especially by the idea that they may be extremely well controlled but in an unstable way. There are all sorts of phenomena that I&#8217;d like to understand better. It feels as though there ought to be differential equations that would predict the behaviour well, but my attempts to do that have so far given obviously wrong predictions.</p>
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		<title>By: Klas Markström</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5868</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Klas Markström]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5868</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thomas, the program is exhaustive, so given enough time it will determine the maximum possible length of a sequence with discrepancy 2.

The program does not move forward in simple steps, as from 1119 to 1120, so it is difficult to estimate the remaining running time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas, the program is exhaustive, so given enough time it will determine the maximum possible length of a sequence with discrepancy 2.</p>
<p>The program does not move forward in simple steps, as from 1119 to 1120, so it is difficult to estimate the remaining running time.</p>
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		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5867</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5867</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Kevin O&#039;Bryant has been down more or less this road, but perhaps you are doing something he wasn&#039;t. In any case, if you have a sequence that is completely multiplicative mod M, then a fairly easy Fourier argument gives you a partial sum of size proportional to the square root of M, so I think there isn&#039;t an easy way of improving Matryoshka sequences. But it&#039;s possible that I am not fully understanding what you are hoping to do here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Kevin O&#8217;Bryant has been down more or less this road, but perhaps you are doing something he wasn&#8217;t. In any case, if you have a sequence that is completely multiplicative mod M, then a fairly easy Fourier argument gives you a partial sum of size proportional to the square root of M, so I think there isn&#8217;t an easy way of improving Matryoshka sequences. But it&#8217;s possible that I am not fully understanding what you are hoping to do here.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Sauvaget</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5866</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas Sauvaget]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5866</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Klas, is your program exhaustive, i.e. when it finishes will it mean that it has reached the maximal possible length of C=2 sequences for sure?  Also, do you have an estimate of when it might finish under the assumption that 1124 is the maximal length (i.e. how long did it take from 1119 to 1120?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Klas, is your program exhaustive, i.e. when it finishes will it mean that it has reached the maximal possible length of C=2 sequences for sure?  Also, do you have an estimate of when it might finish under the assumption that 1124 is the maximal length (i.e. how long did it take from 1119 to 1120?)</p>
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		<title>By: Alec Edgington</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5865</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alec Edgington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve posted the partition, along with prime factorizations of the members of each set in it, on the wiki.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve posted the partition, along with prime factorizations of the members of each set in it, on the wiki.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Guy Srinivasan</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5864</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Guy Srinivasan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5864</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, the length 1935 &quot;completely multiplicative&quot; sequence is not, because the length 240 sequence is not completely multiplicative mod 241. Is there an enumeration of the 500 length 246 discrepancy 2 sequences somewhere?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the length 1935 &#8220;completely multiplicative&#8221; sequence is not, because the length 240 sequence is not completely multiplicative mod 241. Is there an enumeration of the 500 length 246 discrepancy 2 sequences somewhere?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Guy Srinivasan</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5863</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Guy Srinivasan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5863</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(x needs to be completely multiplicative mod N to this to work.)
(which means I don&#039;t know how to iterate it. unless y is magically completely multiplicative mod M for a nice M)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(x needs to be completely multiplicative mod N to this to work.)<br />
(which means I don&#8217;t know how to iterate it. unless y is magically completely multiplicative mod M for a nice M)</p>
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		<title>By: Guy Srinivasan</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5862</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Guy Srinivasan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 05:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Suppose $latex x$ is a sequence of length $latex N$ which is completely multiplicative, has discrepancy at most $latex D$, has $latex x_N=1$, and has $latex \sum_{i=1}^{N-1}x_i=0$.

Define $latex y$ as $latex y_i=y_{N k + a}=y_k$ if $latex a=0$ and $latex x_a$ otherwise.

Then $latex y$ is completely multiplicative and up to length $latex N^k-1$ has discrepancy at most $latex kD$.

Verifying using the sample multiplicative sequence of length 246 with discrepancy 2 (http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Multiplicative_sequences), I checked to find the largest index where the sequence has value +1 and the partial sum just before that is 0, which is at $latex x_{241}$. Extending that gives a completely multiplicative sequence of length 1935 with discrepancy 3, and it goes to $latex 241^3 &lt; 112446751 &lt; 241^4$ with discrepancy 7.

It&#039;s still multiplicative if $latex y_{N k + 0}=x_k$, which helped improve the original Matryoshka sequence. When I extend that way I get to length 1943 while still at discrepancy 3.

What I&#039;m really hopeful about is iterating this procedure - finding a good constructive way to choose how much to increase the discrepancy and where to pick the length of the next sequence, then constructing &quot;better and better&quot; versions. I thought I had sqrt(log) for a moment, but it didn&#039;t work...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suppose <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x' title='x' class='latex' /> is a sequence of length <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=N&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='N' title='N' class='latex' /> which is completely multiplicative, has discrepancy at most <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='D' title='D' class='latex' />, has <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_N%3D1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_N=1' title='x_N=1' class='latex' />, and has <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Csum_%7Bi%3D1%7D%5E%7BN-1%7Dx_i%3D0&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;sum_{i=1}^{N-1}x_i=0' title='&#92;sum_{i=1}^{N-1}x_i=0' class='latex' />.</p>
<p>Define <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=y&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='y' title='y' class='latex' /> as <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=y_i%3Dy_%7BN+k+%2B+a%7D%3Dy_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='y_i=y_{N k + a}=y_k' title='y_i=y_{N k + a}=y_k' class='latex' /> if <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=a%3D0&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='a=0' title='a=0' class='latex' /> and <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_a&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_a' title='x_a' class='latex' /> otherwise.</p>
<p>Then <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=y&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='y' title='y' class='latex' /> is completely multiplicative and up to length <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=N%5Ek-1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='N^k-1' title='N^k-1' class='latex' /> has discrepancy at most <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=kD&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='kD' title='kD' class='latex' />.</p>
<p>Verifying using the sample multiplicative sequence of length 246 with discrepancy 2 (<a href="http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Multiplicative_sequences" rel="nofollow">http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Multiplicative_sequences</a>), I checked to find the largest index where the sequence has value +1 and the partial sum just before that is 0, which is at <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_%7B241%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_{241}' title='x_{241}' class='latex' />. Extending that gives a completely multiplicative sequence of length 1935 with discrepancy 3, and it goes to <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=241%5E3+%3C+112446751+%3C+241%5E4&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='241^3 &lt; 112446751 &lt; 241^4' title='241^3 &lt; 112446751 &lt; 241^4' class='latex' /> with discrepancy 7.</p>
<p>It&#39;s still multiplicative if <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=y_%7BN+k+%2B+0%7D%3Dx_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='y_{N k + 0}=x_k' title='y_{N k + 0}=x_k' class='latex' />, which helped improve the original Matryoshka sequence. When I extend that way I get to length 1943 while still at discrepancy 3.</p>
<p>What I&#39;m really hopeful about is iterating this procedure &#8211; finding a good constructive way to choose how much to increase the discrepancy and where to pick the length of the next sequence, then constructing &quot;better and better&quot; versions. I thought I had sqrt(log) for a moment, but it didn&#39;t work&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Alec Edgington</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5860</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alec Edgington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The next largest set in the partition is

$latex A_1 = \{ 148, 152, 164, 166, 172, 173, \ldots \}$

which has 66 elements.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The next largest set in the partition is</p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=A_1+%3D+%5C%7B+148%2C+152%2C+164%2C+166%2C+172%2C+173%2C+%5Cldots+%5C%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='A_1 = &#92;{ 148, 152, 164, 166, 172, 173, &#92;ldots &#92;}' title='A_1 = &#92;{ 148, 152, 164, 166, 172, 173, &#92;ldots &#92;}' class='latex' /></p>
<p>which has 66 elements.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alec Edgington</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/edp5-another-very-brief-summary/#comment-5859</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alec Edgington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1507#comment-5859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is quite a bit of common structure to these sequences. One can partition $latex [1120]$ into sets $latex A \subseteq [1120]$ with &#039;primary&#039; functions $latex \xi_A : A \rightarrow \{ 1, -1 \}$ such that all the sequences in the list satisfy $latex x \vert_A = \pm \xi_A$. One such set is $latex \{ 2, 3, 14, 21, 94, 98, 141, 147 \}$. Most impressive is the set

$latex A_0 = \{ 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, \ldots \}$

which has 729 elements! (Thus all Klas&#039;s sequences satisfy $latex x_4 = -x_5 = -x_6 = -x_8 = x_9 = \ldots = x_{1120}$.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is quite a bit of common structure to these sequences. One can partition <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5B1120%5D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='[1120]' title='[1120]' class='latex' /> into sets <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=A+%5Csubseteq+%5B1120%5D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='A &#92;subseteq [1120]' title='A &#92;subseteq [1120]' class='latex' /> with &#8216;primary&#8217; functions <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cxi_A+%3A+A+%5Crightarrow+%5C%7B+1%2C+-1+%5C%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;xi_A : A &#92;rightarrow &#92;{ 1, -1 &#92;}' title='&#92;xi_A : A &#92;rightarrow &#92;{ 1, -1 &#92;}' class='latex' /> such that all the sequences in the list satisfy <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x+%5Cvert_A+%3D+%5Cpm+%5Cxi_A&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x &#92;vert_A = &#92;pm &#92;xi_A' title='x &#92;vert_A = &#92;pm &#92;xi_A' class='latex' />. One such set is <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5C%7B+2%2C+3%2C+14%2C+21%2C+94%2C+98%2C+141%2C+147+%5C%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;{ 2, 3, 14, 21, 94, 98, 141, 147 &#92;}' title='&#92;{ 2, 3, 14, 21, 94, 98, 141, 147 &#92;}' class='latex' />. Most impressive is the set</p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=A_0+%3D+%5C%7B+4%2C+5%2C+6%2C+8%2C+9%2C+10%2C+12%2C+15%2C+%5Cldots+%5C%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='A_0 = &#92;{ 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, &#92;ldots &#92;}' title='A_0 = &#92;{ 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, &#92;ldots &#92;}' class='latex' /></p>
<p>which has 729 elements! (Thus all Klas&#8217;s sequences satisfy <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_4+%3D+-x_5+%3D+-x_6+%3D+-x_8+%3D+x_9+%3D+%5Cldots+%3D+x_%7B1120%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_4 = -x_5 = -x_6 = -x_8 = x_9 = &#92;ldots = x_{1120}' title='x_4 = -x_5 = -x_6 = -x_8 = x_9 = &#92;ldots = x_{1120}' class='latex' />.)</p>
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