<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: EDP2 &#8212; a few lessons from EDP1</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/</link>
	<description>Mathematics related discussions</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 25 May 2013 02:38:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sune Kristian Jakobsen</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5545</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sune Kristian Jakobsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5545</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5536&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Earlier I asked&lt;/a&gt; what we could say about a multiplicative sequence with bounded discrepancy and with $latex x_n=0$ if n is divisible by 3 and $latex x_n\in\{-1,+1\}$ otherwise. In particular it would be interesting to know if it had to look like the character. Inspired by &lt;a href=&quot;http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5499&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a comment by Gowers&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5540&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a comment by Tao&lt;/a&gt; I tried to do some calculation (I&#039;m not sure if they can be justified):

First assume that we can talk about the density of 1s along the AP 1,4,7,... Let call this density p. Now we would expect that if we take two numbers =1 (mod 3) the term at the product would be a 1 with probability $latex p^2+(1-p)^2$, and (at least if we worked with rationals) this would give a random number =1 (mod 3). The equation $latex p=p^2+(1-p)^2$ have two solutions p=1 and p=1/2. This suggest that either the sequence is almost identical to the character, or it is not at all correlated with the character. If this argument works, I think it generalize to all other primes.

Of course this doesn&#039;t prove that there exist such sequence not correlated with the character. I&#039;m not sure if we should expect that such sequences exists.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5536" rel="nofollow">Earlier I asked</a> what we could say about a multiplicative sequence with bounded discrepancy and with <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_n%3D0&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_n=0' title='x_n=0' class='latex' /> if n is divisible by 3 and <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_n%5Cin%5C%7B-1%2C%2B1%5C%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_n&#92;in&#92;{-1,+1&#92;}' title='x_n&#92;in&#92;{-1,+1&#92;}' class='latex' /> otherwise. In particular it would be interesting to know if it had to look like the character. Inspired by <a href="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5499" rel="nofollow">a comment by Gowers</a> and <a href="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5540" rel="nofollow">a comment by Tao</a> I tried to do some calculation (I&#8217;m not sure if they can be justified):</p>
<p>First assume that we can talk about the density of 1s along the AP 1,4,7,&#8230; Let call this density p. Now we would expect that if we take two numbers =1 (mod 3) the term at the product would be a 1 with probability <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=p%5E2%2B%281-p%29%5E2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='p^2+(1-p)^2' title='p^2+(1-p)^2' class='latex' />, and (at least if we worked with rationals) this would give a random number =1 (mod 3). The equation <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=p%3Dp%5E2%2B%281-p%29%5E2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='p=p^2+(1-p)^2' title='p=p^2+(1-p)^2' class='latex' /> have two solutions p=1 and p=1/2. This suggest that either the sequence is almost identical to the character, or it is not at all correlated with the character. If this argument works, I think it generalize to all other primes.</p>
<p>Of course this doesn&#8217;t prove that there exist such sequence not correlated with the character. I&#8217;m not sure if we should expect that such sequences exists.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sune Kristian Jakobsen</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5544</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sune Kristian Jakobsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5544</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;A toy problem might be to try to use this idea with $latex p\neq 3$ to prove that Walters example has unbounded discrepancy.&quot;
That didn&#039;t make sense: If p is a power of 3 it is trivial, if not $latex (y_n)$ doesn&#039;t have bounded discrepancy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A toy problem might be to try to use this idea with <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=p%5Cneq+3&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='p&#92;neq 3' title='p&#92;neq 3' class='latex' /> to prove that Walters example has unbounded discrepancy.&#8221;<br />
That didn&#8217;t make sense: If p is a power of 3 it is trivial, if not <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28y_n%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(y_n)' title='(y_n)' class='latex' /> doesn&#8217;t have bounded discrepancy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5543</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I normally prefer finitary arguments, but I found your recent and very even-handed blog post about the merits and demerits of finitary and infinitary arguments (and in particular the use of nonstandard analysis) very interesting, and right from the start this problem has seemed like one where infinitary methods would be appropriate. And the argument you give above is a rather good illustration of the advantages. It seems clear to me that in this instance one can fairly easily translate the argument into a finitary one. However, the concept of a random x that does everything one wants it to do is clearly an extremely useful one, since it enables one to think about the actual ideas of the problem without being distracted by error estimates. In other words, even if one ends up presenting a finitary argument (and it is debatable whether one would want to) the infinitary view seems to be the right view when one is thinking about the question.

I have to go, but when I get back I want to apply this remark to the parameter I have been thinking about -- it seems that it can be cleaned up in a nice way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I normally prefer finitary arguments, but I found your recent and very even-handed blog post about the merits and demerits of finitary and infinitary arguments (and in particular the use of nonstandard analysis) very interesting, and right from the start this problem has seemed like one where infinitary methods would be appropriate. And the argument you give above is a rather good illustration of the advantages. It seems clear to me that in this instance one can fairly easily translate the argument into a finitary one. However, the concept of a random x that does everything one wants it to do is clearly an extremely useful one, since it enables one to think about the actual ideas of the problem without being distracted by error estimates. In other words, even if one ends up presenting a finitary argument (and it is debatable whether one would want to) the infinitary view seems to be the right view when one is thinking about the question.</p>
<p>I have to go, but when I get back I want to apply this remark to the parameter I have been thinking about &#8212; it seems that it can be cleaned up in a nice way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sune Kristian Jakobsen</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5542</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sune Kristian Jakobsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5542</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course the formula should be
$latex \sum_{i=1}^nx_i=\sum_{k=0}^{\infty}x_p^k\sum_{i=1}^{\lfloor\frac{n}{p^k}\rfloor}y_i$
(with $latex x_p$ instead of $latex x_3$)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course the formula should be<br />
<img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Csum_%7Bi%3D1%7D%5Enx_i%3D%5Csum_%7Bk%3D0%7D%5E%7B%5Cinfty%7Dx_p%5Ek%5Csum_%7Bi%3D1%7D%5E%7B%5Clfloor%5Cfrac%7Bn%7D%7Bp%5Ek%7D%5Crfloor%7Dy_i&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;sum_{i=1}^nx_i=&#92;sum_{k=0}^{&#92;infty}x_p^k&#92;sum_{i=1}^{&#92;lfloor&#92;frac{n}{p^k}&#92;rfloor}y_i' title='&#92;sum_{i=1}^nx_i=&#92;sum_{k=0}^{&#92;infty}x_p^k&#92;sum_{i=1}^{&#92;lfloor&#92;frac{n}{p^k}&#92;rfloor}y_i' class='latex' /><br />
(with <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_p&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_p' title='x_p' class='latex' /> instead of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_3&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_3' title='x_3' class='latex' />)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sune Kristian Jakobsen</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5541</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sune Kristian Jakobsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5541</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let $latex (x_n)$ be a multiplicative sequence and let $latex (y_n)$ be the same sequence with every p&#039;th term turned into a 0. Now we have:

$latex \sum_{i=1}^nx_i=\sum_{k=0}^{\infty}x_3^k\sum_{i=1}^{\lfloor\frac{n}{p^k}\rfloor}y_i$

This is how we prove that Walters example is unbounded (with p=3). Perhaps this could be used for a general multiplicative sequence? It would explain why the discrepancy is logarithmic, if it is logarithmic. And if the discrepancy is sublogaritmic, this approach might still work, by letting p depend on C (that is: We want to prove that no multiplicative sequence is bounded by C. Now let p=...). 

A toy problem might be to try to use this idea with $latex p\neq 3$ to prove that Walters example has unbounded discrepancy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_n%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_n)' title='(x_n)' class='latex' /> be a multiplicative sequence and let <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28y_n%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(y_n)' title='(y_n)' class='latex' /> be the same sequence with every p&#8217;th term turned into a 0. Now we have:</p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Csum_%7Bi%3D1%7D%5Enx_i%3D%5Csum_%7Bk%3D0%7D%5E%7B%5Cinfty%7Dx_3%5Ek%5Csum_%7Bi%3D1%7D%5E%7B%5Clfloor%5Cfrac%7Bn%7D%7Bp%5Ek%7D%5Crfloor%7Dy_i&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;sum_{i=1}^nx_i=&#92;sum_{k=0}^{&#92;infty}x_3^k&#92;sum_{i=1}^{&#92;lfloor&#92;frac{n}{p^k}&#92;rfloor}y_i' title='&#92;sum_{i=1}^nx_i=&#92;sum_{k=0}^{&#92;infty}x_3^k&#92;sum_{i=1}^{&#92;lfloor&#92;frac{n}{p^k}&#92;rfloor}y_i' class='latex' /></p>
<p>This is how we prove that Walters example is unbounded (with p=3). Perhaps this could be used for a general multiplicative sequence? It would explain why the discrepancy is logarithmic, if it is logarithmic. And if the discrepancy is sublogaritmic, this approach might still work, by letting p depend on C (that is: We want to prove that no multiplicative sequence is bounded by C. Now let p=&#8230;). </p>
<p>A toy problem might be to try to use this idea with <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=p%5Cneq+3&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='p&#92;neq 3' title='p&#92;neq 3' class='latex' /> to prove that Walters example has unbounded discrepancy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Terence Tao</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5540</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terence Tao]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One way to think about the ergodic theory formulation is that it rigorously defines for you the notion of a &quot;random&quot; x.  (Strictly speaking, this x doesn&#039;t live in either the integers or the rationals, but instead lives in a measure space upon which the rationals act by multiplication, but this is not terribly important for us, and we can imagine that x is rational for sake of discussion.)  Furthermore, this notion of a random x is shift-invariant in the sense that qx has the same distribution as x for all fixed rationals q, thus for instance 2x as the same distribution as x; more generally, the joint distribution of $latex a_1 x, \ldots, a_k x$ is the same as that of $latex qa_1 x, \ldots, qa_k x$ for any rationals $latex a_1,\ldots,a_k,q$.  Thus for instance

Prob( f(x) = 1 ) = Prob( f(2x) = 1 )

and the averaging argument also gives

Prob(f(x)=1) = 1/2

but as f(x) and f(2x) can&#039;t both be -1, we get f(2x) = -f(x) almost surely.  But we can always remove probability zero events from the space and get f(2x)=-f(x) everywhere.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One way to think about the ergodic theory formulation is that it rigorously defines for you the notion of a &#8220;random&#8221; x.  (Strictly speaking, this x doesn&#8217;t live in either the integers or the rationals, but instead lives in a measure space upon which the rationals act by multiplication, but this is not terribly important for us, and we can imagine that x is rational for sake of discussion.)  Furthermore, this notion of a random x is shift-invariant in the sense that qx has the same distribution as x for all fixed rationals q, thus for instance 2x as the same distribution as x; more generally, the joint distribution of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=a_1+x%2C+%5Cldots%2C+a_k+x&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='a_1 x, &#92;ldots, a_k x' title='a_1 x, &#92;ldots, a_k x' class='latex' /> is the same as that of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=qa_1+x%2C+%5Cldots%2C+qa_k+x&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='qa_1 x, &#92;ldots, qa_k x' title='qa_1 x, &#92;ldots, qa_k x' class='latex' /> for any rationals <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=a_1%2C%5Cldots%2Ca_k%2Cq&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='a_1,&#92;ldots,a_k,q' title='a_1,&#92;ldots,a_k,q' class='latex' />.  Thus for instance</p>
<p>Prob( f(x) = 1 ) = Prob( f(2x) = 1 )</p>
<p>and the averaging argument also gives</p>
<p>Prob(f(x)=1) = 1/2</p>
<p>but as f(x) and f(2x) can&#8217;t both be -1, we get f(2x) = -f(x) almost surely.  But we can always remove probability zero events from the space and get f(2x)=-f(x) everywhere.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5539</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;In particular it would be interesting to know if the +,-,0,+,-,0,… sequence is the only multiplicative sequence with $latex x_n=0$ for n divisible by 3 and $latex x_n\in\{-1,1\}$ otherwise with bounded discrepancy.&quot;

That is a very nice question, and one that just begs to be tested experimentally. What is the longest multiplicative sequence anyone can find that satisfies these conditions, has discrepancy 2, and begins + - 0 + - 0 - - 0, say? 

Maybe I can do that one by hand. Filling in the forced values up to 24, I get 

+ - 0 + - 0 - - 0 + ? 0 ? + 0 + ? 0 ? - 0 ? ? 0

No, there seems to be far too much flexibility there. So does anyone feel like looking into this with a computer search?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In particular it would be interesting to know if the +,-,0,+,-,0,… sequence is the only multiplicative sequence with <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_n%3D0&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_n=0' title='x_n=0' class='latex' /> for n divisible by 3 and <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_n%5Cin%5C%7B-1%2C1%5C%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_n&#92;in&#92;{-1,1&#92;}' title='x_n&#92;in&#92;{-1,1&#92;}' class='latex' /> otherwise with bounded discrepancy.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is a very nice question, and one that just begs to be tested experimentally. What is the longest multiplicative sequence anyone can find that satisfies these conditions, has discrepancy 2, and begins + &#8211; 0 + &#8211; 0 &#8211; - 0, say? </p>
<p>Maybe I can do that one by hand. Filling in the forced values up to 24, I get </p>
<p>+ &#8211; 0 + &#8211; 0 &#8211; - 0 + ? 0 ? + 0 + ? 0 ? &#8211; 0 ? ? 0</p>
<p>No, there seems to be far too much flexibility there. So does anyone feel like looking into this with a computer search?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sune Kristian Jakobsen</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5537</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sune Kristian Jakobsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;using the principle of inclusion-exclusion we can even show that we could do this for any finite number of HAPs&quot;
... and still have bounded discrepancy. It wouldn&#039;t be bounded by 2C, but by $latex 2^nC$ where n is the number of HAPs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;using the principle of inclusion-exclusion we can even show that we could do this for any finite number of HAPs&#8221;<br />
&#8230; and still have bounded discrepancy. It wouldn&#8217;t be bounded by 2C, but by <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=2%5EnC&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='2^nC' title='2^nC' class='latex' /> where n is the number of HAPs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sune Kristian Jakobsen</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sune Kristian Jakobsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If $latex (x_n)$ is a (multiplicative) $latex \{1,-1\}$ sequence with discrepancy at most C, and we turn every p&#039;th term into a 0, we get a (if p is prime: multiplicative) sequences with discrepancy a most 2C (using the principle of inclusion-exclusion we can even show that we could do this for any finite number of HAPs). In particular it would be interesting to know if the +,-,0,+,-,0,... sequences is the only multiplicative sequence with $latex x_n=0$ for n divisible by 3 and $latex x_n\in \{-1,1\}$ otherwise with bounded discrepancy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_n%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_n)' title='(x_n)' class='latex' /> is a (multiplicative) <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5C%7B1%2C-1%5C%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;{1,-1&#92;}' title='&#92;{1,-1&#92;}' class='latex' /> sequence with discrepancy at most C, and we turn every p&#8217;th term into a 0, we get a (if p is prime: multiplicative) sequences with discrepancy a most 2C (using the principle of inclusion-exclusion we can even show that we could do this for any finite number of HAPs). In particular it would be interesting to know if the +,-,0,+,-,0,&#8230; sequences is the only multiplicative sequence with <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_n%3D0&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_n=0' title='x_n=0' class='latex' /> for n divisible by 3 and <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_n%5Cin+%5C%7B-1%2C1%5C%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_n&#92;in &#92;{-1,1&#92;}' title='x_n&#92;in &#92;{-1,1&#92;}' class='latex' /> otherwise with bounded discrepancy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5533</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah, I see now. The point is that 2E has density 1/4 over the integers, but if you pass to the rationals then it becomes &quot;equivalent&quot; to E, so to speak. But for that you have to be a bit careful about what you mean by density.

But an alternative argument would be to say that E has density 1/2 inside the even numbers, E and 2E are virtually disjoint, and 2E has density 1/2 inside the even integers (because it has density 1/4 and consists just of even integers). Therefore, after passing to a suitable limit to get exact disjointness, if $latex x$ is any even number, we have $latex f(2x)=-f(x)$. At least, I think, without really checking, that this should work if you want to stay in the integers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I see now. The point is that 2E has density 1/4 over the integers, but if you pass to the rationals then it becomes &#8220;equivalent&#8221; to E, so to speak. But for that you have to be a bit careful about what you mean by density.</p>
<p>But an alternative argument would be to say that E has density 1/2 inside the even numbers, E and 2E are virtually disjoint, and 2E has density 1/2 inside the even integers (because it has density 1/4 and consists just of even integers). Therefore, after passing to a suitable limit to get exact disjointness, if <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x' title='x' class='latex' /> is any even number, we have <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=f%282x%29%3D-f%28x%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='f(2x)=-f(x)' title='f(2x)=-f(x)' class='latex' />. At least, I think, without really checking, that this should work if you want to stay in the integers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5532</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe I&#039;m missing something, but I thought that was Terry&#039;s argument! (Or at least, equivalent to it.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I&#8217;m missing something, but I thought that was Terry&#8217;s argument! (Or at least, equivalent to it.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: obryant</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5531</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[obryant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5531</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe I&#039;m missing something, but doesn&#039;t working over the positive integers make &quot;density 1/2&quot; part of the argument trivial: Let $latex E$ be the set of integers x in [1,n] with f(x)=+1$. If S:=f(1)+...+f(n) is bounded independent of n, then $latex S/n \to 0$ with n. But $latex S = (+1) &#124;E&#124; + (-1)(n-&#124;E&#124;)= 2&#124;E&#124;-n$, so $latex &#124;E&#124; \sim n/2$.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I&#8217;m missing something, but doesn&#8217;t working over the positive integers make &#8220;density 1/2&#8243; part of the argument trivial: Let <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=E&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='E' title='E' class='latex' /> be the set of integers x in [1,n] with f(x)=+1$. If S:=f(1)+&#8230;+f(n) is bounded independent of n, then <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=S%2Fn+%5Cto+0&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='S/n &#92;to 0' title='S/n &#92;to 0' class='latex' /> with n. But <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=S+%3D+%28%2B1%29+%7CE%7C+%2B+%28-1%29%28n-%7CE%7C%29%3D+2%7CE%7C-n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='S = (+1) |E| + (-1)(n-|E|)= 2|E|-n' title='S = (+1) |E| + (-1)(n-|E|)= 2|E|-n' class='latex' />, so <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%7CE%7C+%5Csim+n%2F2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='|E| &#92;sim n/2' title='|E| &#92;sim n/2' class='latex' />.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Sauvaget</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5529</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas Sauvaget]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve just had a look: yes there is some multiplicative structure, namely all values of $latex k$ which are a multiple of 3 are positively correlated, while the rest are all negatively correlated (in particular $latex k=1$ too).  

Some other thing I&#039;ve noticed is that there are some exact identities between some of these partial sums at the final value 1124 (although since these curves cross before as $latex n$ grows perhaps the final identities are more of an accident than anything else): denoting them by their indices I&#039;ve seen for $latex k\leq 39$ that $latex 5=11=35$, $latex 29=31$, $latex 15=39$, $latex 6=-8$, $latex 20=-12$. The data and a new plot containing $latex k=1$ is here http://thomas1111.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/correlations-of-the-first-1124-sequence/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just had a look: yes there is some multiplicative structure, namely all values of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='k' title='k' class='latex' /> which are a multiple of 3 are positively correlated, while the rest are all negatively correlated (in particular <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k%3D1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='k=1' title='k=1' class='latex' /> too).  </p>
<p>Some other thing I&#8217;ve noticed is that there are some exact identities between some of these partial sums at the final value 1124 (although since these curves cross before as <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n' title='n' class='latex' /> grows perhaps the final identities are more of an accident than anything else): denoting them by their indices I&#8217;ve seen for <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k%5Cleq+39&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='k&#92;leq 39' title='k&#92;leq 39' class='latex' /> that <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=5%3D11%3D35&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='5=11=35' title='5=11=35' class='latex' />, <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=29%3D31&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='29=31' title='29=31' class='latex' />, <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=15%3D39&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='15=39' title='15=39' class='latex' />, <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=6%3D-8&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='6=-8' title='6=-8' class='latex' />, <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=20%3D-12&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='20=-12' title='20=-12' class='latex' />. The data and a new plot containing <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k%3D1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='k=1' title='k=1' class='latex' /> is here <a href="http://thomas1111.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/correlations-of-the-first-1124-sequence/" rel="nofollow">http://thomas1111.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/correlations-of-the-first-1124-sequence/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5528</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I understand correctly, that is also the main result of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~ardm/erdoschu.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mathias&#039;s paper&lt;/a&gt;. But it looks as though your proof is nicer and may be more amenable to generalization.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I understand correctly, that is also the main result of <a href="http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~ardm/erdoschu.pdf" rel="nofollow">Mathias&#8217;s paper</a>. But it looks as though your proof is nicer and may be more amenable to generalization.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Terence Tao</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5527</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terence Tao]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5527</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I managed to show (in relation to &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/edp1-the-official-start-of-polymath5/#comment-5334&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jason&#039;s problem&lt;/A&gt;) that there is no sequence of bounded discrepancy and of lower discrepancy 1, thus there must be a partial sum that dips below -2.  The writeup is at

http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Upper_and_lower_discrepancy

The main trick (which I first found by working with the &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Topological_dynamics_formulation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ergodic theory formulation&lt;/A&gt; of the problem) is to observe that a bounded discrepancy sequence must have &quot;mean zero&quot; in a suitable sense, by averaging the bound &#124;f(x)+\ldots+f(nx)&#124; \leq C in x and then setting n to infinity.  Thus the set E of x for which f(x)=+1 has density 1/2.

On the other hand, with lower discrepancy 1, f(x) and f(2x) can&#039;t both be -1, thus E and 2E cover the whole space.  Since E and 2E both have density 1/2 (using the right sort of notion of density, and working on the rationals rather than integers) we conclude that E and 2E are almost disjoint.  Passing to a subsequence one can make E and 2E genuinely disjoint, so f(2x) = -f(x).  This allows one to flip lower discrepancy 1 to upper discrepancy 1 as well, and now it is easy to eliminate the sequence (e.g. one can use the non-existence of drift 2 sequences, though it is easier than this.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I managed to show (in relation to <a HREF="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/edp1-the-official-start-of-polymath5/#comment-5334" rel="nofollow">Jason&#8217;s problem</a>) that there is no sequence of bounded discrepancy and of lower discrepancy 1, thus there must be a partial sum that dips below -2.  The writeup is at</p>
<p><a href="http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Upper_and_lower_discrepancy" rel="nofollow">http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Upper_and_lower_discrepancy</a></p>
<p>The main trick (which I first found by working with the <a HREF="http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Topological_dynamics_formulation" rel="nofollow">ergodic theory formulation</a> of the problem) is to observe that a bounded discrepancy sequence must have &#8220;mean zero&#8221; in a suitable sense, by averaging the bound |f(x)+\ldots+f(nx)| \leq C in x and then setting n to infinity.  Thus the set E of x for which f(x)=+1 has density 1/2.</p>
<p>On the other hand, with lower discrepancy 1, f(x) and f(2x) can&#8217;t both be -1, thus E and 2E cover the whole space.  Since E and 2E both have density 1/2 (using the right sort of notion of density, and working on the rationals rather than integers) we conclude that E and 2E are almost disjoint.  Passing to a subsequence one can make E and 2E genuinely disjoint, so f(2x) = -f(x).  This allows one to flip lower discrepancy 1 to upper discrepancy 1 as well, and now it is easy to eliminate the sequence (e.g. one can use the non-existence of drift 2 sequences, though it is easier than this.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5526</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a continuation of a sequence of comments, of which &lt;a href=&quot;http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5505&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this was the previous one&lt;/a&gt;, on the subject of trying to prove that multiplicative functions have unbounded partial sums by looking at a weighted average of the drifts at different scales.

The main gap in what I have written up to now is a proper account of how this parameter might be used in a proof. This comment aims to fill that gap. I don&#039;t mean that I will actually use the parameter or actually prove anything, but I will argue that the parameter is set up in such a way as to make it rather plausible that it could be used in an inductive argument. 

Recall that we have up to now discussed two potential strategies for making longer sequences out of shorter ones. The obvious strategy is simply to take the shorter sequence and try to extend it. But another way (more &quot;quotient-like&quot; than &quot;subspace-like&quot;) is to expand the original sequence by some factor and attempt to fill in the gaps. That is, given a sequence $latex (x_n)$, one defines $latex y_{kn}$ to be $latex x_n$ and then tries to choose values of $latex y_r$ when $latex r$ is not a multiple of $latex k$. An easy observation is that &lt;a href=&quot;http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5439&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; this can be used to multiply the length of a sequence by about 9 while adding only 1 to its discrepancy&lt;/a&gt;.

Here, then, is something we could hope for. Note that if we have a multiplicative sequence $latex (x_n)$, then the sequence $latex (x_{3n})$ is either the same sequence or minus that sequence. So we can regard $latex (x_n)$ as $latex (x_{3n})$ with the gaps filled in. Now it seems to be hard to fill in the gaps without increasing drifts a certain amount. What we don&#039;t seem to be able to do is show that we are forced to increase the discrepancy (given the existence of the sequence of length 246 and discrepancy 2), but what we do know is that the drift of the $latex (x_{3n})$ scale puts pressure on the $latex (x_n)$-sequence at three times that scale, and we now have a new contribution at the bottom that should often have the effect of increasing drifts in intervals. (I&#039;m imagining here a much more sophisticated version of the kind of easy observation I was making &lt;a href=&quot;http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5524&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.)

So I think that it is at least vaguely believable that one could prove that if you expand a sequence by a factor of at least $latex t$ (for some fixed $latex t$) then you have to increase the average-oscillation parameter by at least 1, which would imply a logarithmic lower bound for multiplicative functions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a continuation of a sequence of comments, of which <a href="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5505" rel="nofollow">this was the previous one</a>, on the subject of trying to prove that multiplicative functions have unbounded partial sums by looking at a weighted average of the drifts at different scales.</p>
<p>The main gap in what I have written up to now is a proper account of how this parameter might be used in a proof. This comment aims to fill that gap. I don&#8217;t mean that I will actually use the parameter or actually prove anything, but I will argue that the parameter is set up in such a way as to make it rather plausible that it could be used in an inductive argument. </p>
<p>Recall that we have up to now discussed two potential strategies for making longer sequences out of shorter ones. The obvious strategy is simply to take the shorter sequence and try to extend it. But another way (more &#8220;quotient-like&#8221; than &#8220;subspace-like&#8221;) is to expand the original sequence by some factor and attempt to fill in the gaps. That is, given a sequence <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_n%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_n)' title='(x_n)' class='latex' />, one defines <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=y_%7Bkn%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='y_{kn}' title='y_{kn}' class='latex' /> to be <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_n' title='x_n' class='latex' /> and then tries to choose values of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=y_r&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='y_r' title='y_r' class='latex' /> when <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=r&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='r' title='r' class='latex' /> is not a multiple of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='k' title='k' class='latex' />. An easy observation is that <a href="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5439" rel="nofollow"> this can be used to multiply the length of a sequence by about 9 while adding only 1 to its discrepancy</a>.</p>
<p>Here, then, is something we could hope for. Note that if we have a multiplicative sequence <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_n%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_n)' title='(x_n)' class='latex' />, then the sequence <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_%7B3n%7D%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_{3n})' title='(x_{3n})' class='latex' /> is either the same sequence or minus that sequence. So we can regard <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_n%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_n)' title='(x_n)' class='latex' /> as <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_%7B3n%7D%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_{3n})' title='(x_{3n})' class='latex' /> with the gaps filled in. Now it seems to be hard to fill in the gaps without increasing drifts a certain amount. What we don&#8217;t seem to be able to do is show that we are forced to increase the discrepancy (given the existence of the sequence of length 246 and discrepancy 2), but what we do know is that the drift of the <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_%7B3n%7D%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_{3n})' title='(x_{3n})' class='latex' /> scale puts pressure on the <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_n%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_n)' title='(x_n)' class='latex' />-sequence at three times that scale, and we now have a new contribution at the bottom that should often have the effect of increasing drifts in intervals. (I&#8217;m imagining here a much more sophisticated version of the kind of easy observation I was making <a href="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5524" rel="nofollow">here</a>.)</p>
<p>So I think that it is at least vaguely believable that one could prove that if you expand a sequence by a factor of at least <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=t&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='t' title='t' class='latex' /> (for some fixed <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=t&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='t' title='t' class='latex' />) then you have to increase the average-oscillation parameter by at least 1, which would imply a logarithmic lower bound for multiplicative functions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5524</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s interesting in the light of the following observation. The sequences you get if you use those two blocks are all sequences you can obtain by taking a sequence S and expanding it by a factor of 3 by inserting + - between any two terms (and starting with + -). What properties must S have for this expansion procedure to work? Well, obviously it needs to have discrepancy at most 2, and if it does then that takes care of all HAPs with common difference a multiple of 3.

Now let&#039;s consider HAPs with common difference d, where d is congruent to 1 mod 3. The sequences themselves will go + - ? + - ? + - ?, where the question marks denote the values at the HAP with common difference 3d. For this HAP to work, we need that the sum along an HAP with common difference 3d should never equal 2. With this extra condition we&#039;ll be OK.

A similar argument shows that if d is congruent to 2, then the sum along an HAP with common difference 3d should never equal -2. 

Returning to S, this says that S must have discrepancy 2, but also that for HAPs with common difference equal to 1 mod 3 we need the partial sums between -2 and 1, and for HAPs with common difference equal to 2 mod 3 we need them to be between -1 and 2.

In a small way, this provides more evidence that low-discrepancy sequences are forced to become more &quot;chaotic&quot; as they get longer (since if they don&#039;t then you get stronger discrepancy conditions such as the one just described).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s interesting in the light of the following observation. The sequences you get if you use those two blocks are all sequences you can obtain by taking a sequence S and expanding it by a factor of 3 by inserting + &#8211; between any two terms (and starting with + -). What properties must S have for this expansion procedure to work? Well, obviously it needs to have discrepancy at most 2, and if it does then that takes care of all HAPs with common difference a multiple of 3.</p>
<p>Now let&#8217;s consider HAPs with common difference d, where d is congruent to 1 mod 3. The sequences themselves will go + &#8211; ? + &#8211; ? + &#8211; ?, where the question marks denote the values at the HAP with common difference 3d. For this HAP to work, we need that the sum along an HAP with common difference 3d should never equal 2. With this extra condition we&#8217;ll be OK.</p>
<p>A similar argument shows that if d is congruent to 2, then the sum along an HAP with common difference 3d should never equal -2. </p>
<p>Returning to S, this says that S must have discrepancy 2, but also that for HAPs with common difference equal to 1 mod 3 we need the partial sums between -2 and 1, and for HAPs with common difference equal to 2 mod 3 we need them to be between -1 and 2.</p>
<p>In a small way, this provides more evidence that low-discrepancy sequences are forced to become more &#8220;chaotic&#8221; as they get longer (since if they don&#8217;t then you get stronger discrepancy conditions such as the one just described).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5523</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 10:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another thing that would be interesting, which I can&#039;t quite read off your diagrams, is a list of which k give positive correlation and which negative. (I&#039;m wondering whether this partition has any multiplicative structure.) I&#039;m also interested to know whether there is any correlation when k=1.

In general, if $latex y_k$ is the correlation between $latex x_n$ and $latex x_{n+k}$, then the sequence $latex (y_k)$ will have bounded partial sums, by an averaging argument: if $latex y_1+\dots+y_m &gt; C$, then the average value of $latex x_{n+1}+x_{n+2}+\dots+x_{n+m}$ is greater than $latex C$. If we also had some kind of multiplicative structure, this would be a strong statement. (If the $latex y_k$ were bounded below, it would be even stronger, but that may be too much to hope for.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing that would be interesting, which I can&#8217;t quite read off your diagrams, is a list of which k give positive correlation and which negative. (I&#8217;m wondering whether this partition has any multiplicative structure.) I&#8217;m also interested to know whether there is any correlation when k=1.</p>
<p>In general, if <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=y_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='y_k' title='y_k' class='latex' /> is the correlation between <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_n' title='x_n' class='latex' /> and <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_%7Bn%2Bk%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_{n+k}' title='x_{n+k}' class='latex' />, then the sequence <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28y_k%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(y_k)' title='(y_k)' class='latex' /> will have bounded partial sums, by an averaging argument: if <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=y_1%2B%5Cdots%2By_m+%3E+C&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='y_1+&#92;dots+y_m &gt; C' title='y_1+&#92;dots+y_m &gt; C' class='latex' />, then the average value of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_%7Bn%2B1%7D%2Bx_%7Bn%2B2%7D%2B%5Cdots%2Bx_%7Bn%2Bm%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_{n+1}+x_{n+2}+&#92;dots+x_{n+m}' title='x_{n+1}+x_{n+2}+&#92;dots+x_{n+m}' class='latex' /> is greater than <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=C&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='C' title='C' class='latex' />. If we also had some kind of multiplicative structure, this would be a strong statement. (If the <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=y_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='y_k' title='y_k' class='latex' /> were bounded below, it would be even stronger, but that may be too much to hope for.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alec Edgington</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5522</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alec Edgington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 09:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5522</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This suggests yet another generalization of the problem that may be interesting to think about. What if we are only allowed to build our sequence from some small set of length-$latex k$ blocks?

For example, if we have to build it out of the blocks
&lt;pre&gt;
+-+
+--
&lt;/pre&gt;
then exhaustive search shows that the longest sequence of discrepancy 2 has length 402 (composed of 134 such blocks).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This suggests yet another generalization of the problem that may be interesting to think about. What if we are only allowed to build our sequence from some small set of length-<img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='k' title='k' class='latex' /> blocks?</p>
<p>For example, if we have to build it out of the blocks</p>
<pre>
+-+
+--
</pre>
<p>then exhaustive search shows that the longest sequence of discrepancy 2 has length 402 (composed of 134 such blocks).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Terence Tao</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5521</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terence Tao]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 09:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5521</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I finally managed to eliminate sequences of drift 2:

http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Drift

The argument is quite combinatorial (with an initial use of passing to subsequences to improve things a little bit).  It was lengthier than I anticipated.  It relies quite a bit on the constrictive nature of drift 2; it would require quite a bit of ingenuity to push it up even to drift 3.  Still, perhaps it may trigger some ideas in someone else...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I finally managed to eliminate sequences of drift 2:</p>
<p><a href="http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Drift" rel="nofollow">http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Drift</a></p>
<p>The argument is quite combinatorial (with an initial use of passing to subsequences to improve things a little bit).  It was lengthier than I anticipated.  It relies quite a bit on the constrictive nature of drift 2; it would require quite a bit of ingenuity to push it up even to drift 3.  Still, perhaps it may trigger some ideas in someone else&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sune Kristian Jakobsen</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5520</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sune Kristian Jakobsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 09:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For a multiplicative sequence, what can we say about the partial sums at the HAPs? That is, for a fixed d I want to know something about $latex \sum_{k=1}^{nd}x_k$ (not $latex \sum_{k=1}^{nd}x_{kd}$ since this is the same as the partial sum, perhaps with the sign changed). In particular, if d is fixed and odd (if it is even all the partial sums will be even),  do these partial sums have the same distribution as in the original sequence?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a multiplicative sequence, what can we say about the partial sums at the HAPs? That is, for a fixed d I want to know something about <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Csum_%7Bk%3D1%7D%5E%7Bnd%7Dx_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;sum_{k=1}^{nd}x_k' title='&#92;sum_{k=1}^{nd}x_k' class='latex' /> (not <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Csum_%7Bk%3D1%7D%5E%7Bnd%7Dx_%7Bkd%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;sum_{k=1}^{nd}x_{kd}' title='&#92;sum_{k=1}^{nd}x_{kd}' class='latex' /> since this is the same as the partial sum, perhaps with the sign changed). In particular, if d is fixed and odd (if it is even all the partial sums will be even),  do these partial sums have the same distribution as in the original sequence?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sune Kristian Jakobsen</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5519</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sune Kristian Jakobsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 09:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5519</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;From a theoretical point of view, it may be better to define a generalized character-like function to be any completely multiplicative function with the following properties: there exists p such that the value at any non-multiple n of p is λp(n); the sequence $latex (x_{pn})_{n=1}^\infty$ is a generalized character-like function. In other words, instead of going up by a factor of p every time, one goes up by different primes at each stage.&quot; - the wiki
I think the sequence has to use the same prime at each stage in order to be multiplicative.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;From a theoretical point of view, it may be better to define a generalized character-like function to be any completely multiplicative function with the following properties: there exists p such that the value at any non-multiple n of p is λp(n); the sequence <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_%7Bpn%7D%29_%7Bn%3D1%7D%5E%5Cinfty&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_{pn})_{n=1}^&#92;infty' title='(x_{pn})_{n=1}^&#92;infty' class='latex' /> is a generalized character-like function. In other words, instead of going up by a factor of p every time, one goes up by different primes at each stage.&#8221; &#8211; the wiki<br />
I think the sequence has to use the same prime at each stage in order to be multiplicative.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5518</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 00:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5518</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your comment has provoked the following idea, which I&#039;ll put down here in rather brief form and expand on it some other time if it doesn&#039;t quietly die first. The idea is for another parameter that might be useful, connected with entropy.

Suppose we have a multiplicative sequence. If it is character-like, then it puts big restrictions on the possible subsequences of various lengths. I haven&#039;t done the calculations, but I think the number of distinct subsequences of length k (by which I mean restrictions to intervals of length k) grows very modestly as a function of k -- perhaps even polynomially but as I say I&#039;d need to do the calculation.

Perhaps it is possible to prove that a multiplicative sequence of bounded discrepancy cannot be significantly longer than a character-like example without the number of subsequences growing much faster, to the point that we&#039;re eventually forced to have long strings of 1s or -1s. 

This is a very vague idea at the moment. I think the point would be to prove that either a sequence has very few distinct restrictions to intervals of length k, in which case it is forced to be character-like, in which case we are done, or it has lots, in which case we are done for a different reason. But this could turn out to fail miserably.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your comment has provoked the following idea, which I&#8217;ll put down here in rather brief form and expand on it some other time if it doesn&#8217;t quietly die first. The idea is for another parameter that might be useful, connected with entropy.</p>
<p>Suppose we have a multiplicative sequence. If it is character-like, then it puts big restrictions on the possible subsequences of various lengths. I haven&#8217;t done the calculations, but I think the number of distinct subsequences of length k (by which I mean restrictions to intervals of length k) grows very modestly as a function of k &#8212; perhaps even polynomially but as I say I&#8217;d need to do the calculation.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is possible to prove that a multiplicative sequence of bounded discrepancy cannot be significantly longer than a character-like example without the number of subsequences growing much faster, to the point that we&#8217;re eventually forced to have long strings of 1s or -1s. </p>
<p>This is a very vague idea at the moment. I think the point would be to prove that either a sequence has very few distinct restrictions to intervals of length k, in which case it is forced to be character-like, in which case we are done, or it has lots, in which case we are done for a different reason. But this could turn out to fail miserably.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sune Kristian Jakobsen</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5517</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sune Kristian Jakobsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5517</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I had an idea on how to prove that multiplicative sequences with bounded discrepancy doesn&#039;t exist, but I found out that (for a trivial reason) it probably couldn&#039;t work. It might inspire someone, so I will post it anyway.

Assume that we have a multiplicative sequence with bounded discrepancy. Is seems reasonable to assume that the set of terms where the partial sum is at its maximum has positive density. We know that there must be a + at this term and a - after it. Can we use this for anything? Probably not, since we already know that the set of +&#039;s followed by a - must have positive density (perhaps this was a bit too trivial to be posted?).

However, I still think it might be interesting to look at the density of the set of terms where the partial sum is S. If the sequence has bounded discrepancy, we would probably expect the density to be positive for all possible partial sums S, and given the densities we would be able to calculate the chance of a + at a term given the partial sum up to that term.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had an idea on how to prove that multiplicative sequences with bounded discrepancy doesn&#8217;t exist, but I found out that (for a trivial reason) it probably couldn&#8217;t work. It might inspire someone, so I will post it anyway.</p>
<p>Assume that we have a multiplicative sequence with bounded discrepancy. Is seems reasonable to assume that the set of terms where the partial sum is at its maximum has positive density. We know that there must be a + at this term and a &#8211; after it. Can we use this for anything? Probably not, since we already know that the set of +&#8217;s followed by a &#8211; must have positive density (perhaps this was a bit too trivial to be posted?).</p>
<p>However, I still think it might be interesting to look at the density of the set of terms where the partial sum is S. If the sequence has bounded discrepancy, we would probably expect the density to be positive for all possible partial sums S, and given the densities we would be able to calculate the chance of a + at a term given the partial sum up to that term.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Sauvaget</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/edp2-a-few-lessons-from-edp1/#comment-5516</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas Sauvaget]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/?p=1478#comment-5516</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here they are http://thomas1111.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/seqvchar3better2c.png]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here they are <a href="http://thomas1111.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/seqvchar3better2c.png" rel="nofollow">http://thomas1111.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/seqvchar3better2c.png</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
