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	<title>Comments on: My favourite pedagogical principle: examples first!</title>
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	<description>Mathematics related discussions</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mathematics Books for Non-Mathematicians &#171; The Number Warrior</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-1050</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathematics Books for Non-Mathematicians &#171; The Number Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] I&#8217;m reminded of Timothy Gowers and his principle of &#8220;examples first&#8221;. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;m reminded of Timothy Gowers and his principle of &#8220;examples first&#8221;. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Arnold Lebow</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-1049</link>
		<dc:creator>Arnold Lebow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Problems first  is even better. A problem can motivate an example and a definition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Problems first  is even better. A problem can motivate an example and a definition.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-588</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-588</guid>
		<description>I can't be sure, but I think Reid has the same definition in mind; he means that the field axioms be listed out, as in

(i) a,b in F then a+b in F
(ii)...etc

Whether this is put first or second is perhaps neither here nor there; the central thing, from my perspective, is to emphasize that we care about fields because they clarify a lot of things about N, Z, Q, and C (and perhaps even more to the point, they distinguish Z_n from Z_p, both of which can be defined without a recourse to abstraction). This may seem like an obvious statement, but I think a good deal of university mathematics is unfortunately written from the perpsective that this would 'dumb-down' the material.

So I can't agree with the sentiment that "This is University, playtime’s over, it’s time for some real work." In my personal experience I have been able to learn math much more quickly (and deeply) if I view it as play, rather than 'real work.' In the former instance, the subject itself motivates me; in the second, it's not the math, but just a desire to impress people or just do what's expected. And there are easier ways to do these thing than to learn about tensor products, etc. From an even broader viewpoint, surely less sterile math will be developed if people learn in their undergraduate days to pursue abstractions because they are useful and clarifying, rather than pursue the abstractions because someone of authority has written them down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t be sure, but I think Reid has the same definition in mind; he means that the field axioms be listed out, as in</p>
<p>(i) a,b in F then a+b in F<br />
(ii)&#8230;etc</p>
<p>Whether this is put first or second is perhaps neither here nor there; the central thing, from my perspective, is to emphasize that we care about fields because they clarify a lot of things about N, Z, Q, and C (and perhaps even more to the point, they distinguish Z_n from Z_p, both of which can be defined without a recourse to abstraction). This may seem like an obvious statement, but I think a good deal of university mathematics is unfortunately written from the perpsective that this would &#8216;dumb-down&#8217; the material.</p>
<p>So I can&#8217;t agree with the sentiment that &#8220;This is University, playtime’s over, it’s time for some real work.&#8221; In my personal experience I have been able to learn math much more quickly (and deeply) if I view it as play, rather than &#8216;real work.&#8217; In the former instance, the subject itself motivates me; in the second, it&#8217;s not the math, but just a desire to impress people or just do what&#8217;s expected. And there are easier ways to do these thing than to learn about tensor products, etc. From an even broader viewpoint, surely less sterile math will be developed if people learn in their undergraduate days to pursue abstractions because they are useful and clarifying, rather than pursue the abstractions because someone of authority has written them down.</p>
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		<title>By: Atdotde</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-539</link>
		<dc:creator>Atdotde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-539</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;An example for example&lt;/strong&gt;

Tim Gowers has two very interesting posts on using examples early on in a mathematical exposition of a subject. I can only second that and say that this is my favorite way of understanding mathematical concepts: Try to think through the simplest non-...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>An example for example</strong></p>
<p>Tim Gowers has two very interesting posts on using examples early on in a mathematical exposition of a subject. I can only second that and say that this is my favorite way of understanding mathematical concepts: Try to think through the simplest non-&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-478</link>
		<dc:creator>gowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-478</guid>
		<description>A quick remark in response to the last two comments. Although for rhetorical purposes I may have made it seem as though I was holding to a certain belief in a dogmatic way, that's not really the point of what I am saying. I do, as it happens, think that there are many many examples of expositions in the public domain that could be made more accessible if an examples-first approach was used. But, as has already been mentioned, there are two separate (though related) issues that one can distinguish: what is achieved by putting examples first, and is that something that one wants to achieve?

Although my answer to the second question is very often yes, it's really my answer to the first question that I'd like to persuade people of. I may even end up writing "Examples first III" to deal with it at greater length, but a brief summary of my view is this. It depends on a distinction between "direct" memory (the sort you'd need to remember digits of $latex \pi$, say) and "derived" memory (the sort you'd need to reconstruct a proof of a theorem from one key idea using your years of mathematical training). One of the difficulties of reading mathematics linearly is that you sometimes have to rely on direct memory because you don't yet have anything from which to derive a memory. This would be true if a proof had steps that appeared to be arbitrary, or a complicated lemma was stated and you didn't know how it was going to be applied, or a definition was given that turned out later to be exactly what you needed. Putting examples (and other kinds of motivation) first is a way of reducing the reliance of the reader on direct memory, since it sometimes makes it possible to derive the memory instead. (E.g., in the fields example, one could derive the list of axioms, or at least get a long way towards doing so, from the simple idea that they are the properties that hold of addition and multiplication in the rationals.) It's this factual point that I'm mainly trying to push. (By "factual" I mean that it makes a statement about the world that could be true or false.) The normative point (this is how we ought to present mathematics) is secondary -- of course, it's no secret what my views are here too, but I don't hold them in a rigid way and can think of situations where presenting examples first would not be helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A quick remark in response to the last two comments. Although for rhetorical purposes I may have made it seem as though I was holding to a certain belief in a dogmatic way, that&#8217;s not really the point of what I am saying. I do, as it happens, think that there are many many examples of expositions in the public domain that could be made more accessible if an examples-first approach was used. But, as has already been mentioned, there are two separate (though related) issues that one can distinguish: what is achieved by putting examples first, and is that something that one wants to achieve?</p>
<p>Although my answer to the second question is very often yes, it&#8217;s really my answer to the first question that I&#8217;d like to persuade people of. I may even end up writing &#8220;Examples first III&#8221; to deal with it at greater length, but a brief summary of my view is this. It depends on a distinction between &#8220;direct&#8221; memory (the sort you&#8217;d need to remember digits of <img src='http://l.wordpress.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cpi&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000000&amp;s=0' alt='\pi' title='\pi' class='latex' />, say) and &#8220;derived&#8221; memory (the sort you&#8217;d need to reconstruct a proof of a theorem from one key idea using your years of mathematical training). One of the difficulties of reading mathematics linearly is that you sometimes have to rely on direct memory because you don&#8217;t yet have anything from which to derive a memory. This would be true if a proof had steps that appeared to be arbitrary, or a complicated lemma was stated and you didn&#8217;t know how it was going to be applied, or a definition was given that turned out later to be exactly what you needed. Putting examples (and other kinds of motivation) first is a way of reducing the reliance of the reader on direct memory, since it sometimes makes it possible to derive the memory instead. (E.g., in the fields example, one could derive the list of axioms, or at least get a long way towards doing so, from the simple idea that they are the properties that hold of addition and multiplication in the rationals.) It&#8217;s this factual point that I&#8217;m mainly trying to push. (By &#8220;factual&#8221; I mean that it makes a statement about the world that could be true or false.) The normative point (this is how we ought to present mathematics) is secondary &#8212; of course, it&#8217;s no secret what my views are here too, but I don&#8217;t hold them in a rigid way and can think of situations where presenting examples first would not be helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: John Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-473</link>
		<dc:creator>John Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-473</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think people should be especially skeptical about transforming their tastes into strong principles.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I second this.  As one much wiser than I has said, "It is my firm belief that it is a mistake to hold firm beliefs."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think people should be especially skeptical about transforming their tastes into strong principles.</p></blockquote>
<p>I second this.  As one much wiser than I has said, &#8220;It is my firm belief that it is a mistake to hold firm beliefs.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Gil Kalai</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil Kalai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-472</guid>
		<description>The examples put forward in the discussions: How to teach the concept of a field and the example regarding "how large is your orbit, x?" and several additional examples put forward in the discussion like teaching limits and teaching Sylow's theorems are excellent examples. Not because they immediately lead you to accept with enthusiasm Tim's suggestion but because they can be very useful in examining the "examples first" suggestion. When it comes to pedagogical claims or to other forms of advice we are not able to prove things, so our best shot in examining them is to look at them skeptically. (I hope my earlier comment while not enthusiastic did not come across as hostile.) So this is not special to blogs, it is special to moving away from mathematics.

Regarding 'fields' I like the way Amitsur do it basing the definition of a field on trying to examine properties of the real numbers; I see no problem in mentioning Q and C as "positive" examples and N and Z as "negative" examples before giving the formal definition provided the students already know these examples. I am not sure it makes a big difference. If the main objective is to define "fields" and the students need an introduction to the complex numbers I would not suggest to give this example first but to wait after fields are defined.

Actually my own style/taste of teaching is in the direction of examples-first plenty of preliminary chat, stories, philosophy, non linear development and plenty apropos and even dubious humor. It is perhaps a good pedagogical principle that people should follow, within reason, their taste and style. But I think people should be especially skeptical about transforming their tastes into strong principles.

Apropos Amitsur, while I do not remember him giving much chat and non linear stories at class I do remember we had many chats in our faculty club (Belgium house) and we even tried once to work on a problem: Take a non Papussian projective space (3-dimensional), say a projective space
over the Quaternion. Is it possible to find there seven pairs of lines e1, e2, ... e7 ; f1 f2 ...f7 so that ei is disjoint from fi for every i and ei intersects fj whenever i and j are different. Such a configuration is impossible for a Papussian projective space (over a field). 
As far as I know, this problem is still open.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The examples put forward in the discussions: How to teach the concept of a field and the example regarding &#8220;how large is your orbit, x?&#8221; and several additional examples put forward in the discussion like teaching limits and teaching Sylow&#8217;s theorems are excellent examples. Not because they immediately lead you to accept with enthusiasm Tim&#8217;s suggestion but because they can be very useful in examining the &#8220;examples first&#8221; suggestion. When it comes to pedagogical claims or to other forms of advice we are not able to prove things, so our best shot in examining them is to look at them skeptically. (I hope my earlier comment while not enthusiastic did not come across as hostile.) So this is not special to blogs, it is special to moving away from mathematics.</p>
<p>Regarding &#8216;fields&#8217; I like the way Amitsur do it basing the definition of a field on trying to examine properties of the real numbers; I see no problem in mentioning Q and C as &#8220;positive&#8221; examples and N and Z as &#8220;negative&#8221; examples before giving the formal definition provided the students already know these examples. I am not sure it makes a big difference. If the main objective is to define &#8220;fields&#8221; and the students need an introduction to the complex numbers I would not suggest to give this example first but to wait after fields are defined.</p>
<p>Actually my own style/taste of teaching is in the direction of examples-first plenty of preliminary chat, stories, philosophy, non linear development and plenty apropos and even dubious humor. It is perhaps a good pedagogical principle that people should follow, within reason, their taste and style. But I think people should be especially skeptical about transforming their tastes into strong principles.</p>
<p>Apropos Amitsur, while I do not remember him giving much chat and non linear stories at class I do remember we had many chats in our faculty club (Belgium house) and we even tried once to work on a problem: Take a non Papussian projective space (3-dimensional), say a projective space<br />
over the Quaternion. Is it possible to find there seven pairs of lines e1, e2, &#8230; e7 ; f1 f2 &#8230;f7 so that ei is disjoint from fi for every i and ei intersects fj whenever i and j are different. Such a configuration is impossible for a Papussian projective space (over a field).<br />
As far as I know, this problem is still open.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 11:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Reid,

The fields you're referring to (i.e. those in an ordered list) seem to be &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_%28computer_science%29" rel="nofollow"&gt;these&lt;/a&gt;, whereas Tim's fields are &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_%28mathematics%29" rel="nofollow"&gt;those&lt;/a&gt;.

This is one of the many instances where people working in different fields (pun not intended) turn a word of common English (or any other language) into a technical term in different ways that are often unrelated to each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reid,</p>
<p>The fields you&#8217;re referring to (i.e. those in an ordered list) seem to be <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_%28computer_science%29" rel="nofollow">these</a>, whereas Tim&#8217;s fields are <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_%28mathematics%29" rel="nofollow">those</a>.</p>
<p>This is one of the many instances where people working in different fields (pun not intended) turn a word of common English (or any other language) into a technical term in different ways that are often unrelated to each other.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-406</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-406</guid>
		<description>But, the 'closer to the limit' idea works with upper and lower subsequences. Then one can tie it up by saying that if both these subsequences get 'closer to the limit' then the sequence itself is said to converge. 
I wonder if sequences could be taught that way -- by first doing LimSup and LimInf and then then limits. That way the student is first introduced to non-decreasing or non-increasing sequences where the 'closer to the limit' intuition can work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, the &#8216;closer to the limit&#8217; idea works with upper and lower subsequences. Then one can tie it up by saying that if both these subsequences get &#8216;closer to the limit&#8217; then the sequence itself is said to converge.<br />
I wonder if sequences could be taught that way &#8212; by first doing LimSup and LimInf and then then limits. That way the student is first introduced to non-decreasing or non-increasing sequences where the &#8216;closer to the limit&#8217; intuition can work.</p>
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		<title>By: beans</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/my-favourite-pedagogical-principle-examples-first/#comment-405</link>
		<dc:creator>beans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Actually I am sorry but I had confused my notes! The lecturer did precisely what you wrote, but it was with two other functions! I will have to retract my previous statement, since whether or not I prefer examples first depends on the course. Indeed, motivation was the key word. In analysis, in the first lecture this semester, we were given the motivation which set the scene rather nicely. That is the very same thing which I have been desperate for in my applied course. 

Quite strangely, I myself wrote a rather long post about what Deane Yang commented about! I feel that the lecturers tell us a story, and they each have their own unique way of doing so. And as with books, you sometimes prefer one over the other. One fantastic lecturer gives us definitions first and then examples straight after and I follow that. Hmm, I think each theorem, definition etc deserves its own attention. Had the Intermediate Value Theorem not been introduced by a diagram, I would have had great difficulty in understanding and following its proof.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually I am sorry but I had confused my notes! The lecturer did precisely what you wrote, but it was with two other functions! I will have to retract my previous statement, since whether or not I prefer examples first depends on the course. Indeed, motivation was the key word. In analysis, in the first lecture this semester, we were given the motivation which set the scene rather nicely. That is the very same thing which I have been desperate for in my applied course. </p>
<p>Quite strangely, I myself wrote a rather long post about what Deane Yang commented about! I feel that the lecturers tell us a story, and they each have their own unique way of doing so. And as with books, you sometimes prefer one over the other. One fantastic lecturer gives us definitions first and then examples straight after and I follow that. Hmm, I think each theorem, definition etc deserves its own attention. Had the Intermediate Value Theorem not been introduced by a diagram, I would have had great difficulty in understanding and following its proof.</p>
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