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	<title>Comments on: Discovering a formula for the cubic</title>
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	<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/</link>
	<description>Mathematics related discussions</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Geometry of a Polynomial &#171; Rigorous Trivialities</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-946</link>
		<dc:creator>Geometry of a Polynomial &#171; Rigorous Trivialities</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] of equations involving  (because it contains a cubic, which is not good, see this post of mine and this one of Gowers&#8217;s which show how hard a single variable cubic is), we can instead homogenize  and solve the system [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of equations involving  (because it contains a cubic, which is not good, see this post of mine and this one of Gowers&#8217;s which show how hard a single variable cubic is), we can instead homogenize  and solve the system [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-897</link>
		<dc:creator>John Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-897</guid>
		<description>Heinrich: or you could use &lt;a href="http://unapologetic.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/faulhabers-fabulous-formula/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Faulhaber's Fabulous Formula&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heinrich: or you could use <a href="http://unapologetic.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/faulhabers-fabulous-formula/" rel="nofollow">Faulhaber&#8217;s Fabulous Formula</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Heinrich</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-896</link>
		<dc:creator>Heinrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-896</guid>
		<description>Oh, and concerning the sum $1^k + 2^k + \dots + n^k$, there is a simple way for finding a formula for any given $k$: the simple observation is that in the cases $k=1,2,3$, the formula is a polynomial of degree $k+1$ and the idea is to make exactly this ansatz in the general case.

This is further simplified by changing coordinates, i.e. by using a different basis than $n^j$ for the vector space of polynomials. A better basis is $n, n(n-1), n(n-1)(n-2), \dots, n(n-1)\cdots(n-k)$ since these functions have nice sums. In other words, try to find an explicit formula for $\sum_{a=0}^n a(a-1)(a-2)$ and be delighted :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and concerning the sum $1^k + 2^k + \dots + n^k$, there is a simple way for finding a formula for any given $k$: the simple observation is that in the cases $k=1,2,3$, the formula is a polynomial of degree $k+1$ and the idea is to make exactly this ansatz in the general case.</p>
<p>This is further simplified by changing coordinates, i.e. by using a different basis than $n^j$ for the vector space of polynomials. A better basis is $n, n(n-1), n(n-1)(n-2), \dots, n(n-1)\cdots(n-k)$ since these functions have nice sums. In other words, try to find an explicit formula for $\sum_{a=0}^n a(a-1)(a-2)$ and be delighted <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Heinrich</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-895</link>
		<dc:creator>Heinrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-895</guid>
		<description>As Nick already pointed out, the historical route to Galois theory is the most illuminating. According to the marvelous read

  Jörg Bewersdorff. Galois Theory for Beginners: A Historical Perspective
  http://tinyurl.com/2u6k52

Lagrange came up with the sum-of-roots-of-unity ansatz while trying to understand what's going on with the quintic.

In fact, I find the usual "modern" presentation of Galois theory utterly incomprehensible. I mean, it's not so bad and quite simple after knowing the historical approach of permuting the roots. But why, why is the easy way pretty much forgotten? Why struggle months with something abstract-nonsensical and void of motivation when there's a dead simple and even more illuminating approach to understand it in hours? As Feynman (?) put it: "If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't really understand it." But I'm preaching to the choir :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Nick already pointed out, the historical route to Galois theory is the most illuminating. According to the marvelous read</p>
<p>  Jörg Bewersdorff. Galois Theory for Beginners: A Historical Perspective<br />
  <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2u6k52" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/2u6k52</a></p>
<p>Lagrange came up with the sum-of-roots-of-unity ansatz while trying to understand what&#8217;s going on with the quintic.</p>
<p>In fact, I find the usual &#8220;modern&#8221; presentation of Galois theory utterly incomprehensible. I mean, it&#8217;s not so bad and quite simple after knowing the historical approach of permuting the roots. But why, why is the easy way pretty much forgotten? Why struggle months with something abstract-nonsensical and void of motivation when there&#8217;s a dead simple and even more illuminating approach to understand it in hours? As Feynman (?) put it: &#8220;If you can&#8217;t explain it to a six year old, you don&#8217;t really understand it.&#8221; But I&#8217;m preaching to the choir <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Ricardo S</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-872</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricardo S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-872</guid>
		<description>When Mark Kac was young he solved the cubic in a different way if a, b, and c are the roots and w^3 = 1 where w is not 1.

Let s = a + b + c, t = a + wb +w^2c, u = a + w^2b + wc 

Then express t^3 + u^3 and t^3 * u^3 in terms of the symmetric terms.

There is a nice story to that solution you can find it in Mark Kac's autobiography "Enigmas of Chance".

It seems to me that this solution is related to Terence Tao's solution as a sort of inverse transformation.

Since someone cited sums of powers I remembered finding a nice "geometrical" solution to the sum of squares 1^2 + 2^2 + 3^2 +...+ n^2. Organize one 1, two 2's, three 3's, ...., and n n's into an equilateral triangle in the natural way, then add the corresponding elements of the three versions of this triangle (the original and the rotated by 120 and 240 degrees) it nice to see that the sum is constant and equal to 2n+1. Since there are n(n+1)/2 elements in the triangle the total sum is  n(n+1)/2*(2n+1) and the sum of the elements in the original triangle n(n+1)(2n+1)/6 which is the sum of the squares.

I would like to present this in a motivated way but I am afraid that is somewhat longer. I also tried to generalize this idea to get the sum of cubes but failed. Since it has such a nice sum I suppose that it could also have a nice geometrical method to it. Anyone has an idea?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Mark Kac was young he solved the cubic in a different way if a, b, and c are the roots and w^3 = 1 where w is not 1.</p>
<p>Let s = a + b + c, t = a + wb +w^2c, u = a + w^2b + wc </p>
<p>Then express t^3 + u^3 and t^3 * u^3 in terms of the symmetric terms.</p>
<p>There is a nice story to that solution you can find it in Mark Kac&#8217;s autobiography &#8220;Enigmas of Chance&#8221;.</p>
<p>It seems to me that this solution is related to Terence Tao&#8217;s solution as a sort of inverse transformation.</p>
<p>Since someone cited sums of powers I remembered finding a nice &#8220;geometrical&#8221; solution to the sum of squares 1^2 + 2^2 + 3^2 +&#8230;+ n^2. Organize one 1, two 2&#8217;s, three 3&#8217;s, &#8230;., and n n&#8217;s into an equilateral triangle in the natural way, then add the corresponding elements of the three versions of this triangle (the original and the rotated by 120 and 240 degrees) it nice to see that the sum is constant and equal to 2n+1. Since there are n(n+1)/2 elements in the triangle the total sum is  n(n+1)/2*(2n+1) and the sum of the elements in the original triangle n(n+1)(2n+1)/6 which is the sum of the squares.</p>
<p>I would like to present this in a motivated way but I am afraid that is somewhat longer. I also tried to generalize this idea to get the sum of cubes but failed. Since it has such a nice sum I suppose that it could also have a nice geometrical method to it. Anyone has an idea?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Krempel</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-737</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Krempel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-737</guid>
		<description>Sorry for this somewhat late post - I just discovered your blog and am playing catch-up! Re: your "arriving at a completely demystified proof of the insolubility of the quintic", I would recommend looking at Galois theory by the route through which it was originally discovered, rather than the more modern abstract point of view. Or more accurately, the various attempts at it (e.g. by Lagrange) which were subsequently refined (Galois) and what ideas led them at each stage. I haven't yet read much about this myself, but as far as I remember the book "Pioneers of Representation Theory" has a nice section on this early on, including the sorts of explicit calculations gregknese was enquiring about - how do I actually "solve" this supposedly solvable equation?

On an unrelated note, when you say "we end up needing to solve quadratics and take cube roots, both of which we are allowed to assume that we can do", I wonder how many people would actually consider cube roots of a complex number something basic they "can calculate", as, unlike in the square root case, you can't find the real and imaginary parts in terms of roots of only real numbers, so presumably would resort to using transcendental functions (in which case you could of course solve the quintic too.) Utlimately you have to make a choice of "numbers I can deal with" - something you've talked about before in other places.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for this somewhat late post - I just discovered your blog and am playing catch-up! Re: your &#8220;arriving at a completely demystified proof of the insolubility of the quintic&#8221;, I would recommend looking at Galois theory by the route through which it was originally discovered, rather than the more modern abstract point of view. Or more accurately, the various attempts at it (e.g. by Lagrange) which were subsequently refined (Galois) and what ideas led them at each stage. I haven&#8217;t yet read much about this myself, but as far as I remember the book &#8220;Pioneers of Representation Theory&#8221; has a nice section on this early on, including the sorts of explicit calculations gregknese was enquiring about - how do I actually &#8220;solve&#8221; this supposedly solvable equation?</p>
<p>On an unrelated note, when you say &#8220;we end up needing to solve quadratics and take cube roots, both of which we are allowed to assume that we can do&#8221;, I wonder how many people would actually consider cube roots of a complex number something basic they &#8220;can calculate&#8221;, as, unlike in the square root case, you can&#8217;t find the real and imaginary parts in terms of roots of only real numbers, so presumably would resort to using transcendental functions (in which case you could of course solve the quintic too.) Utlimately you have to make a choice of &#8220;numbers I can deal with&#8221; - something you&#8217;ve talked about before in other places.</p>
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		<title>By: JOHN SMITH</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>JOHN SMITH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-131</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that Tim. What you say is encouraging to me. I have deliberately Not read this post on the cubic in its entirety because I wanted to discover it without being told how which is I presume, the whole idea of the post.
At first I tried 'completing the cube', which seemed a natural thing to try but I was heading in the wrong direction..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that Tim. What you say is encouraging to me. I have deliberately Not read this post on the cubic in its entirety because I wanted to discover it without being told how which is I presume, the whole idea of the post.<br />
At first I tried &#8216;completing the cube&#8217;, which seemed a natural thing to try but I was heading in the wrong direction..</p>
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		<title>By: gowers</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator>gowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-129</guid>
		<description>My answer to JOHN SMITH's first question of September 18th is that I would expect most Cambridge undergraduates &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; to manage to find a solution to the cubic unaided. However, that is not because they would be incapable of it. My post tries to demonstrate that by showing that you don't have to have flashes of genius to solve the cubic -- just the wish to generalize the quadratic solution in as natural a way as you can. Rather, it is because only a smallish proportion of Cambridge undergraduates (or indeed, mathematics undergraduates anywhere) start out with the belief that they could ever solve a mathematics problem that wasn't carefully constructed to be solvable in a fairly routine way. There's a simple way of getting this belief, which is to solve one hard problem. It may take a few hours, or a week, or a month, or six months, or even longer, but once someone has done it they understand from their own experience that it is possible. Then they start to have positive thoughts like, "What strategy will maximize my chances of solving this problem?" or "I seem to keep having the same difficulty -- what could I do differently?" rather than negative ones like, "Maths is hard, and I haven't been taught how to do this, so there's no chance of my managing." And then they find that solving difficult problems is just like many other activities: hard, yes, but not impossible and something that gets easier with practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My answer to JOHN SMITH&#8217;s first question of September 18th is that I would expect most Cambridge undergraduates <em>not</em> to manage to find a solution to the cubic unaided. However, that is not because they would be incapable of it. My post tries to demonstrate that by showing that you don&#8217;t have to have flashes of genius to solve the cubic &#8212; just the wish to generalize the quadratic solution in as natural a way as you can. Rather, it is because only a smallish proportion of Cambridge undergraduates (or indeed, mathematics undergraduates anywhere) start out with the belief that they could ever solve a mathematics problem that wasn&#8217;t carefully constructed to be solvable in a fairly routine way. There&#8217;s a simple way of getting this belief, which is to solve one hard problem. It may take a few hours, or a week, or a month, or six months, or even longer, but once someone has done it they understand from their own experience that it is possible. Then they start to have positive thoughts like, &#8220;What strategy will maximize my chances of solving this problem?&#8221; or &#8220;I seem to keep having the same difficulty &#8212; what could I do differently?&#8221; rather than negative ones like, &#8220;Maths is hard, and I haven&#8217;t been taught how to do this, so there&#8217;s no chance of my managing.&#8221; And then they find that solving difficult problems is just like many other activities: hard, yes, but not impossible and something that gets easier with practice.</p>
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		<title>By: One way of looking at Cauchy&#8217;s theorem &#171; Gowers&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>One way of looking at Cauchy&#8217;s theorem &#171; Gowers&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-122</guid>
		<description>[...] this? The reason is rather similar to the reason that I got rid of the square root round  in my  post about cubics. In both cases I wanted to generalize something that was a bit too complicated for it to be obvious [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this? The reason is rather similar to the reason that I got rid of the square root round  in my  post about cubics. In both cases I wanted to generalize something that was a bit too complicated for it to be obvious [...]</p>
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		<title>By: davidspeyer</title>
		<link>http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-116</link>
		<dc:creator>davidspeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/discovering-a-formula-for-the-cubic/#comment-116</guid>
		<description>JOHN SMITH:

There is a discussion in section 6.5 of Concrete Mathematics, by Graham, Knuth and Patashnik, of how one might discover and prove the formula for this sum by nothing but sheer obstinancy. Later, in section 7.3, they describe how the problem becomes easier when armed with the tool of generating functions. I'll sketch the latter attack here, because generating functions are a great tool. Set S(m,n)=1+2^m+3^m+..+n^m. There are four approaches you might try in a generating function attack: you could define any of the four functions

A_m(w)=sum_n S(m,n) w^n, B_m(w)=sum_n S(m,n) w^n/n!, C_n(z)=sum_m S(m,n) z^m, or D_n(z)=sum_m S(m,n) z^m/m!

and try to get this function into a simple form. With A, B and C, we strike out. But, if we come back for a fourth swing, D_n has the nice closed form

(e^{nz}-1)/(e^z-1)=(sum_{k&#62;=1} n^k z^k/k! ) (1/z-1/2+z/6-z^3/30+...)

and we get the closed formula immediately. So one approach to this sum comes down to knowing about generating functions, being willing to try again when the first attack fails, and some basic comfort manipulating series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JOHN SMITH:</p>
<p>There is a discussion in section 6.5 of Concrete Mathematics, by Graham, Knuth and Patashnik, of how one might discover and prove the formula for this sum by nothing but sheer obstinancy. Later, in section 7.3, they describe how the problem becomes easier when armed with the tool of generating functions. I&#8217;ll sketch the latter attack here, because generating functions are a great tool. Set S(m,n)=1+2^m+3^m+..+n^m. There are four approaches you might try in a generating function attack: you could define any of the four functions</p>
<p>A_m(w)=sum_n S(m,n) w^n, B_m(w)=sum_n S(m,n) w^n/n!, C_n(z)=sum_m S(m,n) z^m, or D_n(z)=sum_m S(m,n) z^m/m!</p>
<p>and try to get this function into a simple form. With A, B and C, we strike out. But, if we come back for a fourth swing, D_n has the nice closed form</p>
<p>(e^{nz}-1)/(e^z-1)=(sum_{k&gt;=1} n^k z^k/k! ) (1/z-1/2+z/6-z^3/30+&#8230 <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>and we get the closed formula immediately. So one approach to this sum comes down to knowing about generating functions, being willing to try again when the first attack fails, and some basic comfort manipulating series.</p>
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